SunPower or LG?

[solarix]

"Tier 1" is more about the quality of company than the quality of PV panel. All panels are fabricated using the same or similar equipment and are all very durable (well, we did get a bunch of solder failures out of Suniva one time). Hopefully, a Tier 1 company will be around for awhile - at least as long as the warranty maybe. The other companies come and go and their warranties don't really mean much...

[Jon916]

wow, that's great deal thanks for the info! My SunPower quote of 3.94/W is also directly from sunpower.com... I'll continue shopping and ask if local installers can match the price you got. By the way, did you get this price from SP's initial quoting or after bargain?

The $44088 ( 13.2 kW ) quote I got directly from Sunpower.com through a Zoom meeting with their rep without bargain. You need to find an authorized Sunpower dealer to beat it. My other Sunpower installers' quotes for the same system are all above $51K.

[InmarketforPV]

I am in Northern California, and the quote I got from Sunpower.com directly for a 13.2 kW 33 A series 400W system installed is $3.34/W, I asked my local SunPower authorized installer to beat it, and for the same system, the quote is $3.204/W. All numbers are before incentives & rebates.

Using 36 REC Alpha 365AA all-black panel with IQ7+, the quote I got from the local protrust installer is $2.85/W.

wow, that's great deal thanks for the info! My SunPower quote of 3.94/W is also directly from sunpower.com... I'll continue shopping and ask if local installers can match the price you got. By the way, did you get this price from SP's initial quoting or after bargain?

[Jon916]

OK, here is all I got,

33x Certainteed CT325HC11-04 panels w/ Enphase micro inverters, 10.725 KW system, $3.4/W
22x Panasonic-370-WHT panels w/ SolarEdge SE7600H-US, 8.14KW system, $3.91/W
25x REC 330W Alpha black panels w/ Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters, 8.25KW system, $3.15/W
30x Mission Solar 325W panels w/Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters, 9.75kW system, $2.8/W
25x SunPower A series 410W panels w/ SP interacted micro inverters, 10.25KW system, $3.94/W
28x LG NeonR 395W panels / SolarEdge SE10000H-US, 11.06KW system, $3.54/W

not sure if it's just me, but no luck of getting anywhere under $3.5/W with top name brands SunPower, Panasonic, LG, 30% lower would be $2.48/W for LG, or $2.76/W for SunPower.., anybody could get this price in NCal bay area please do let me know!

I plan to try if I can bargain on LG...but great suggestion on PVWatts, will definitely check that out! Thanks!

I am in Northern California, and the quote I got from Sunpower.com directly for a 13.2 kW 33 A series 400W system installed is $3.34/W, I asked my local SunPower authorized installer to beat it, and for the same system, the quote is $3.204/W. All numbers are before incentives & rebates.

Using 36 REC Alpha 365AA all-black panel with IQ7+, the quote I got from the local protrust installer is $2.85/W.

[Jon916]

I gave some PVS6 monitoring info in post #7. I am not well versed in GitHub or raspberry Pi and cannot help in this area, however. This forum also had a previous topic on sunpower monitoring: "Any 3rd-party software that will work with SunPower's PVS6? 07-18-2019, 02:08 PM". Besides panel level monitoring, I would also suggest that you review other forum users posts regarding Sunpower systems with PVS6 with microinverters.

Are you the type of consumer that likes to be told when your system has problems, or do you like to monitor your own system and tell the installer when system problems happen? For example, one user waited 4 months for a Sunpower tech to configure the PVS6 to the local network. For me, this would be unacceptable. If you look hard enough, there are Sunpower procedures written to configure the PVS6 yourself, but you must have rudimentary of networks and there is the standard Sunpower disclaimer that only qualified and trained personnel can work on the equipment.

There is also a thread on surge protection for microinverters. Since you are getting a new system, this is the opportune time to ask for a Midnight Solar Surge protector to be added during install.

These are only suggestions from things I have learned from this forum.

Here is the link to the article on how to get per panel monitoring data from the Sunpower PVS6.

https://blog.gruby.com/2020/04/28/mo...-solar-system/

[oregon_phil]

I gave some PVS6 monitoring info in post #7. I am not well versed in GitHub or raspberry Pi and cannot help in this area, however. This forum also had a previous topic on sunpower monitoring: "Any 3rd-party software that will work with SunPower's PVS6? 07-18-2019, 02:08 PM". Besides panel level monitoring, I would also suggest that you review other forum users posts regarding Sunpower systems with PVS6 with microinverters.

Are you the type of consumer that likes to be told when your system has problems, or do you like to monitor your own system and tell the installer when system problems happen? For example, one user waited 4 months for a Sunpower tech to configure the PVS6 to the local network. For me, this would be unacceptable. If you look hard enough, there are Sunpower procedures written to configure the PVS6 yourself, but you must have rudimentary of networks and there is the standard Sunpower disclaimer that only qualified and trained personnel can work on the equipment.

There is also a thread on surge protection for microinverters. Since you are getting a new system, this is the opportune time to ask for a Midnight Solar Surge protector to be added during install.

These are only suggestions from things I have learned from this forum.

[Jon916]

I recently received a quote from Sunpower, and the system size is 13.2 kw, 33 panels using the A-series 400w panel. Sunpower said the system will produce 21538 kWh in the first year of production. Then I have another quote from one local installer using the REC alpha 365W panel, a system size of 13.14 kw, 36 panels, and their estimated first-year production is 18980 kWh.

The system sizes are about the same, but the production gap of 21538 - 18980 = 2558 kWh, about 13% difference in production.

I am not sure whether the estimated number from Sunpower is too high, or the REC number is too low.

Can you share your numbers?

Comments are welcome.

Thank you.

Jon

Here is what I got so far.

I questioned the production numbers provided by Sunpower, the Sunpower installer showed me their customer data (I have the pictures, but this site somehow doesn't allow me to upload). The customer has actual first-year production to system DC power ratio at 1.55 (E20 series 325W panels 12042 / 7800) higher than the 1.5 estimated ratio when that customer signed the contract, the panels were placed at three sides of the roof, but only one side is ideal. In my case, all the panels are placed in the ideal direction, so they estimated my ratio of 1.65 ( 33 A series 400W panels 21538 / 13200 = 1.65) could be true.

Now, the 36 panel REC365AA + Ehphase IQ7+ microinverters 13.14 kW system installed quote from my local installer is $37449; the Sunpower 33 panel A series 400W 13.2 kW system installed quote from my local Sunpower authorized installer is $42296 (this is better than quote obtained from Sunpower.com directly, the same system quoted by other installers are $50K+). But if the Sunpower system can indeed produce the estimated production number, then $37499 x 1.134 = $42523 which is effectively higher than the Sunpower system cost of $42296.

Further, the Sunpower A series system comes with 349VA IQ7A microinverters 25 years warranty including labor, the REC 365w system comes with 290VA IQ7+ 25 years warranty without labor (which the installer covers, but local installer may not last 25 years). The two microinverter cost difference (IQ7+ vs IQ7A) is about $1000 for a 13.2 kW system, and the A-series 400W panel is arguably the best Tier 1 panel. So overall, it appears that Sunpower $42296 is a better deal.

With the REC365W panel using IQ7+, 365W is higher than the continuous output power limit of 290W by IQ7+, so it is going to observe clipping, which could be a big factor causing the lower production. I asked the installer whether I could upgrade to IQ7A, and was told they won't do it. IQ7A has 349VA = 349W continuous power delivery limit, 365/290=1.24; 400/349 = 1.14. Therefore, the Sunpower system will see a lot less clipping if any.

Another possible different point that could improve the Sunpower panel efficiency is their copper layer backing, which may work as a cooling layer to lower their panel temperature under the same environmental condition.

The local installer is likely to provide better customer service than Sunpower, which has a lot of complaints.

Other useful info from my local installer: they offer a 30-year entire solar system warranty including labor (no deductibles) at a cost under $800 from solarinsure.com; it is only offered by installer/manufacture, they don't deal with individuals. If you worry about whether your installer will be there for you years later, or the system doesn't come with complete HW + labor warranty coverage, it could be a good peace of mind approach to have.

So, at this point, I think I will take the Sunpower offer. The main issue now is panel-level monitoring, which is currently blocked by Sunpower, but maybe there is another way to get it.

Does anyone know how to get panel-level monitoring capability for the Sunpower PVS6 system?

Thank you.

[bcroe]

Seems like instead of trying to guarantee Mother Nature, it would be more honest
to list a good nominal expectation with reasonable + or - expected production range.
Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

Once again I have to agree with JPM. If you get bids from six different installers on the same 10kW system, they will will give you six different production estimates. I found PVWAtts to be the most accurate with all proper information inputted. I find that installers almost always underestimate so they can make sure to cover those production guarantees and avoid any complaints from the customer when it comes to production.

I'd also suggest that anyone who takes the time to read a so-called production warranty will find it to be a cynical joke. The missed production bar is so low (and justified/backed up by "production estimates" from jammed up models with manipulated inputs - such as what the OP is looking at - that buyers are only confused by) that they wind up being useless.

Production warranties' only valid uses are as marketing tools or crap wrap.

[khanh dam]

you are getting ripped off. there is no way that is going to break even in 6 years at $4/watt. how did you determine that? https://projectsolar.io has much better pricing, not sure how good thier installation service is, but worth a phone call to save thousands.

as far as solar panel brands, tier 1 is a joke. there has been zero scientific study's that show tier one label is better than other panels. And just for arguments sake lets say they are 20% better, but they cost 100% more, so the math never makes sense.

but to answer your question LG is a huge company. if any solar company were to be around in 25 years I would bet on LG. if sunpower or any other solar company went out of business in a week it would not surprise me.

[solarix]

SMA Sunnyboy - diecast aluminum alloy case. Plastic lower cover on the connection section.
Fronius. - Sheetmetal case with plastic top. I've had these not survive shipping and the plastic top cover doesn't stand a chance in our sun.
Solaredge - All plastic case on the inverter, bad plastic MC4 connectors on the optimizers.
Enphase microinverters - diecast alluminum alloy case with no plastic. But in an unservicable location on flush mounted roofs.

[khanh dam]

LG and Sunpower are just about the most expensive options there are. Just look on Solarreviews.com for a reputable local installer and get a "most cost effective" quote using mainstream Tier ! panels and you'll be good. PV panels are all very durable, you don't need to pay extra for "quality" panels. There are three important criteria on choosing an inverter though:
1) reliability 2) reliability 3) reliability. Don't get a brand that has any plastic in the case, is made in China, mounts under the solar array, or doesn't have built in internet connectivity.

don't all inverters have plastic on the case? Which ones meet that strict requirements?

[PugPower]

Once again I have to agree with JPM. If you get bids from six different installers on the same 10kW system, they will will give you six different production estimates. I found PVWAtts to be the most accurate with all proper information inputted. I find that installers almost always underestimate so they can make sure to cover those production guarantees and avoid any complaints from the customer when it comes to production.

[J.P.M.]

I recently received a quote from Sunpower, and the system size is 13.2 kw, 33 panels using the A-series 400w panel. Sunpower said the system will produce 21538 kWh in the first year of production. Then I have another quote from one local installer using the REC alpha 365W panel, a system size of 13.14 kw, 36 panels, and their estimated first-year production is 18980 kWh.

The system sizes are about the same, but the production gap of 21538 - 18980 = 2558 kWh, about 13% difference in production.

I am not sure whether the estimated number from Sunpower is too high, or the REC number is too low.

Can you share your numbers?

Comments are welcome.

Thank you.

Jon

FWIW, estimates are just that and no better than the inputs GIGO applies. However, know this: Regardless of estimates, equal STC size systems in the same service and in the same location will produce pretty close to equal annual output.

The difference in the estimates is due to slight differences in models and assumptions used by different model operators/vendors about shading, orientation and other input variables.

If you want a reasonably reliable guess at long term average annual system output, use PVWatts.
Inputs that are a reasonable representation of what you'll have when built will yield model outputs that are close to a long term average of what to expect in the way of annual output of a well designed system.

Why the different outputs from vendors ? Many vendors will fudge (underestimate) what a system will produce for reasons both good and bad. Good because off design conditions and operation will happen and need to be accommodated to some degree; bad because most users have no idea what the financial penalties of oversizing can be and because of user ignorance and no salesperson ever got fired for selling too big a system. A fit for purpose system will probably be a bit oversized by maybe 5%-10 % but at the same time well designed. Proper sizing BTW, does not usually mean a 100 % usage offset, at least if the most cost effective design is one of the main design goals.

[Jon916]

Hello, I am trying to finalize my PV project after 6 quotes and some research, and now narrows down between SunPower and LG. Here is a comparison of the two,

1. Direct quote from SunPower, all in one Equinox system, A-series 410 W panel with micro inverters x 25, 10.25 KWp system, standard 25yrs warranty entire system, degradation at 0.25%/yr, quoted at ~$40,400.
2. LG quote from local solar company, 395 W LG panel x 28, with SolarEdge inverter + optimizer, 11.06KWp system, 25 yrs warranty on parts, 15 yrs workmanship and roof-penetration, 15 yrs production warranty - incl. reimbursement of electric bills during system down, degradation at 0.33%/yr, quoted at ~$1.2K less than SunPower.

Interestingly, although bigger system from LG (0.81KW more), their estimated power generation is about the same as SunPower's estimate - maybe adding overhead just to insure their production warranty.

I don't find much of cost benefit going with LG, but local company's top ranked reviews on service and commitment on reimbursing system down cost (not with SunPower) now make it a hard decision for me. Long term, small company sustainability vs SunPower is also a concern. Technically, small company trying to sell me that optimizer is more efficient than microinverter, both energy and cost wise, also with microinverter, system not able to monitor individual panel while optimizer could do so? Can I get some advice helping me to decide? Thanks in advance!

I recently received a quote from Sunpower, and the system size is 13.2 kw, 33 panels using the A-series 400w panel. Sunpower said the system will produce 21538 kWh in the first year of production. Then I have another quote from one local installer using the REC alpha 365W panel, a system size of 13.14 kw, 36 panels, and their estimated first-year production is 18980 kWh.

The system sizes are about the same, but the production gap of 21538 - 18980 = 2558 kWh, about 13% difference in production.

I am not sure whether the estimated number from Sunpower is too high, or the REC number is too low.

Can you share your numbers?

Comments are welcome.

Thank you.

Jon