SunPower or LG?

[foo1bar]

Thanks for the explanation! Just for "overall number of kwh is fewer", I am not sure what is this compared against with? My understanding there are just two numbers, kWh that system produces and kWh that is consumed..

I've edited it to make it (hopefully) clearer.
If the overall number of kwh produced is fewer than consumed, you don't get any payments from PG&E.

[InmarketforPV]

Yea, I thought so too about 8 years ago, but reading the latest on the legislation, I believe the 3 big I.O.U's in CA want to, in effect, back out of that deal. If the current form of the legislation, or something close to it becomes law, current (that is prior) PV owners will get dumped from either NEM1.0 or 2.0 on the 10th anniversary of their PTO. Read the legislation being worked on as we write. It will probably change some before final passage, but it looks to me like folks in situations such as yours are stuck in uncretaintyville for awhile. If legislation is passed in its current form, it will probably make new PV about half as cost effective as it is under current tariffs. FWIW, my bill will go from $120/yr. to about $800 or $1K or so as best as I can estimate on about 7,000 kWh of annual total use. I'm also on tiered rates and that will also be going away in a sneaky sort of way as proposed legislation is currently written meaning I'll get to take in the shorts twice.

To repeat, it looks like the POCOs want to end NEM in CA as it is currently configured and tariffed and long before the 20 year time limit that most of us thought to be sacrosanct.

I know, "they're breaking their promise" and all that whinny junk. So what ? It will be what it is.

Still, the legislation isn't final and still being worked out. And, since money talks and most residential PV is in the affluent suburbs, maybe all the rich suburban liberals can have some sway. I'm going to get some popcorn and watch the fun.

If I were in your shoes, I'd check recent posts here with links to the legislation and its progress, and also educated about what it MIGHT do solar residential economics before I committed to buying a system.

Then too, think about all the folks who leased systems, most of which are stuck with monthly payments that not only won't adjust downward to reflect possible higher electic bills as a result of legislation, but increase every year by maybe 3 % while the electricity their systems produce might wind up being worth about half what it was when the systems got PTO. Great way to kill system cost effectiveness.

It'll be a battle between utility monopolies and solar industry, under the names of "solar equality" and "clean energy for CA" ...
Anyways, a system with cost recovered in ~6 yrs under current NEM still attractive to me if it can be grandfathered for 10 years.

[InmarketforPV]

From what I read, all solar customer will be transferred to NEM 3.0 no later than 10 years from the date of service. In addition to this they will impose a monthly fee of $65-$90 for all home owners
with solar. These changes will greatly make your payback longer.

Try AWS Solar too, a little expensive but reviews are good.

Is the imposed monthly fee effective immediately with NEM3.0 or 10 yrs after day of service that is prior to NEM3.0?

[J.P.M.]

My understanding is that NEM2.0 is a 20-yr agreement from system turn on, so I think it will be grandfathered after NEM 3.0 is passed. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get solar this year.
I did request a quote from Sun Crafts solar, but no repose yet. Their reviews are very limited though, a couple of dozens at most compared to hundreds for others, also couldn't find it on BBB.

Yea, I thought so too about 8 years ago, but reading the latest on the legislation, I believe the 3 big I.O.U's in CA want to, in effect, back out of that deal. If the current form of the legislation, or something close to it becomes law, current (that is prior) PV owners will get dumped from either NEM1.0 or 2.0 on the 10th anniversary of their PTO. Read the legislation being worked on as we write. It will probably change some before final passage, but it looks to me like folks in situations such as yours are stuck in uncretaintyville for awhile. If legislation is passed in its current form, it will probably make new PV about half as cost effective as it is under current tariffs. FWIW, my bill will go from $120/yr. to about $800 or $1K or so as best as I can estimate on about 7,000 kWh of annual total use. I'm also on tiered rates and that will also be going away in a sneaky sort of way as proposed legislation is currently written meaning I'll get to take in the shorts twice.

To repeat, it looks like the POCOs want to end NEM in CA as it is currently configured and tariffed and long before the 20 year time limit that most of us thought to be sacrosanct.

I know, "they're breaking their promise" and all that whinny junk. So what ? It will be what it is.

Still, the legislation isn't final and still being worked out. And, since money talks and most residential PV is in the affluent suburbs, maybe all the rich suburban liberals can have some sway. I'm going to get some popcorn and watch the fun.

If I were in your shoes, I'd check recent posts here with links to the legislation and its progress, and also educated about what it MIGHT do solar residential economics before I committed to buying a system.

Then too, think about all the folks who leased systems, most of which are stuck with monthly payments that not only won't adjust downward to reflect possible higher electic bills as a result of legislation, but increase every year by maybe 3 % while the electricity their systems produce might wind up being worth about half what it was when the systems got PTO. Great way to kill system cost effectiveness.

[utsug]

My understanding is that NEM2.0 is a 20-yr agreement from system turn on, so I think it will be grandfathered after NEM 3.0 is passed. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get solar this year.
I did request a quote from Sun Crafts solar, but no repose yet. Their reviews are very limited though, a couple of dozens at most compared to hundreds for others, also couldn't find it on BBB.

From what I read, all solar customer will be transferred to NEM 3.0 no later than 10 years from the date of service. In addition to this they will impose a monthly fee of $65-$90 for all home owners
with solar. These changes will greatly make your payback longer.

Try AWS Solar too, a little expensive but reviews are good.

[InmarketforPV]

I haven't pick any solar company yet. I've got quotes from Sun Craftsmen Solar and Solar Shoppers. I might go with Sun Craftsmen solar but with the upcoming changes to net metering (NEM 3.0), I might not go with solar.
Based on reading those 1 star reviews from LA Solar Group, I would stay away from them. Most of the 1 star reviews are recent reviews.
Try reaching out to Sun Craftsmen Solar.

My understanding is that NEM2.0 is a 20-yr agreement from system turn on, so I think it will be grandfathered after NEM 3.0 is passed. That's one of the reasons I wanted to get solar this year.
I did request a quote from Sun Crafts solar, but no repose yet. Their reviews are very limited though, a couple of dozens at most compared to hundreds for others, also couldn't find it on BBB.

[utsug]

Mind sharing which company did you go with?

I haven't pick any solar company yet. I've got quotes from Sun Craftsmen Solar and Solar Shoppers. I might go with Sun Craftsmen solar but with the upcoming changes to net metering (NEM 3.0), I might not go with solar.
Based on reading those 1 star reviews from LA Solar Group, I would stay away from them. Most of the 1 star reviews are recent reviews.
Try reaching out to Sun Craftsmen Solar.

[InmarketforPV]

For PG&E they do things in retail cost of kwh, which changes with time of day. And at true-up time you can have 3 possibilities.
1> you consumed more $ worth than you produce ==> pay PG&E
2> you consumed less $ than you produced, but overall number of kwh is fewer. (ex. produced 1000 kwh at $.20/kwh, consumed 1500kwh at $.10/kwh == $200 produced,. $150 consumed) ==> you don't pay PG&E for energy, they don't pay you.
3> you consumed less $ than you produced AND consumed fewer kwh. ==> PG&E pays you their average cost to acquire kwh's on your excess production. (usually like $0.04/kwh or $0.05/kwh)

I think there's also a monthly fixed cost component besides.

Advice I saw from ~5 years ago was to aim for producing fewer kwh than use from PG&E - but have enough production during during afternoon hours that the peak pricing covers your off-peak consumption and then some.
OTOH - A friend said he went with a bigger system and he's fine with PG&E getting the "extra" kwh - he said "they are so screwed up, I am good with donating some extra kwh to them. They can use it." (He was somewhat joking - but I think also somewhat serious)

Thanks for the explanation! Just for "overall number of kwh is fewer", I am not sure what is this compared against with? My understanding there are just two numbers, kWh that system produces and kWh that is consumed..

By the way, the other company Solar Optimum that had about same bid as LA Solar Group, their QA manager reached out to me today after I complained about the initial sale rep and offered $2.35/W, but his design used very conservative estimation : 12.58KW to produce only 16292KWh, while from LA Solar Group: 11.52 KW to produce 17107KWh...($2.4/W)
Any experience with Solar Optimum folks? Reviews look pretty good.

[foo1bar]

Find out if there is any hardware restrictions on what they accept for a grid tie system. Also if you are over paneling find out if they will provide a true Net metering contract and pay you for each kWh you send them what they charge you for each kWh you consume.

In some case generating more power then you can use has a limiting financial factor.

For PG&E they do things in retail cost of kwh, which changes with time of day. And at true-up time you can have 3 possibilities.
1> you consumed more $ worth than you produce ==> pay PG&E
2> you consumed less $ than you produced, but overall number of kwh produced is fewer. (ex. produced 1000 kwh at $.20/kwh, consumed 1500kwh at $.10/kwh == $200 produced,. $150 consumed) ==> you don't pay PG&E for energy, they don't pay you.
3> you consumed less $ than you produced AND consumed fewer kwh. ==> PG&E pays you their average cost to acquire kwh's on your excess production. (usually like $0.04/kwh or $0.05/kwh)

I think there's also a monthly fixed cost component besides.

Advice I saw from ~5 years ago was to aim for producing fewer kwh than use from PG&E - but have enough production during during afternoon hours that the peak pricing covers your off-peak consumption and then some.
OTOH - A friend said he went with a bigger system and he's fine with PG&E getting the "extra" kwh - he said "they are so screwed up, I am good with donating some extra kwh to them. They can use it." (He was somewhat joking - but I think also somewhat serious)

[SunEagle]

it's PG&E

Find out if there is any hardware restrictions on what they accept for a grid tie system. Also if you are over paneling find out if they will provide a true Net metering contract and pay you for each kWh you send them what they charge you for each kWh you consume.

In some case generating more power then you can use has a limiting financial factor.

[InmarketforPV]

Not to discourage you but they have some violations / citations. Also check the 1 star reviews on Yelp. I was about to get a quote from them but when I read the reviews on Yelp, I decided not to get a quote from them.

https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/OnlineServices/CheckLicenseII/CitationViolationDisclosure.aspx?LicType=LIC&LicNum=974115&LmfPre=&Class=2&FiscalYear=2019&SeqNbr=1537&ActionCde=C&Status=COMPLETED&LicName=A+P+ELECTRICAL&StatusDt=04/02/2021

Mind sharing which company did you go with?

[InmarketforPV]

Not to discourage you but they have some violations / citations. Also check the 1 star reviews on Yelp. I was about to get a quote from them but when I read the reviews on Yelp, I decided not to get a quote from them.

https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/OnlineServices/CheckLicenseII/CitationViolationDisclosure.aspx?LicType=LIC&LicNum=974115&LmfPre=&Class=2&FiscalYear=2019&SeqNbr=1537&ActionCde=C&Status=COMPLETED&LicName=A+P+ELECTRICAL&StatusDt=04/02/2021

ops ... that's concerning, thanks for the info!

[InmarketforPV]

Poco is power company or electric utility.

it's PG&E

[utsug]

Sorry LA Solar Group it is

Not to discourage you but they have some violations / citations. Also check the 1 star reviews on Yelp. I was about to get a quote from them but when I read the reviews on Yelp, I decided not to get a quote from them.

https://www2.cslb.ca.gov/OnlineServices/CheckLicenseII/CitationViolationDisclosure.aspx?LicType=LIC&LicNum=974115&LmfPre=&Class=2&FiscalYear=2019&SeqNbr=1537&ActionCde=C&Status=COMPLETED&LicName=A+P+ELECTRICAL&StatusDt=04/02/2021

[SunEagle]

N. California, what does POCO stand for?

Poco is power company or electric utility.