Major players in the residential market vs. local installers - which is better?

[rsilvers]

I asked my installer if he would still be in business after 2016 if the Fed credit didn't renew.

It did renew.

http://energy.gov/savings/residential-renewable-energy-tax-credit

[rsilvers]

I don't feel like I need a company to "service my system" in a few years. Anyone can service your system.

What is the big deal? If my inverter dies, call the company who made it and try to get a new one under warranty. Or buy a new one. Swap it.

The hard part of solar is the roof footings, the permits, lifting the modules, applying for net-metering and SRECs.

A warranty is nice, but I would not pay very much extra for it.

As for premium installs - conduit inside the attic and mounting inverters in the basement are part of that.

[ncs55]

local or big company

is it worth it to go with smaller company for a few thousand of savings

It is not only the company. In California I would recommend using a company that has a C-46 license, The C-46 is solar specific and can do all aspects of the job. Using a C-10 (electrical contractor) can be dicey. As a C-10 may know the electrical side, their journey men know squat about roof penetrations and proper flashing and actually a C-10 is not licensed for that part. Usually they will sub out a roofer for that, then you have to deal with two companies. Although a B contractor (general) can perform everything, they can be lacking in some of the finer aspects of design and proper installation. Check the license regardless of the company and see if they have had any complaints with the CSLB or whatever is the equivalent in your state. Most reviews are done within the first few days or weeks after the install is performed and are a little misleading. Often only displaying only the positive reviews and omitting the others. Look for long term results from the contractor that you choose. The company may have been in business for 5-7 years and may look solid. Until you find out in the 8th to 9th year they have gone out of business because they cannot afford to honor their warranties. In the end, do your homework and independently ask others who have first hand experience with the contractor of your choice.

[foo1bar]

but isn't a 10% premium worth the backing of Costco? If sunrun goes belly up, Costco will still be in business

IMO - No, it isn't worth it.

But it's your money.

[huge]

I've broken it down to 2 options. Going with Costco /sunrun or going with local installer LA Solar Group, which seems to get good reviews here. The local company is about 10 % cheaper. I would love to save a couple of thousand dollars, but isn't a 10% premium worth the backing of Costco? If sunrun goes belly up, Costco will still be in business

[solar pete]

I was around for that one too, but as a neophyte solar geek. It was a mess but woke up a lot of folks who had thought solar was the hands down future. Hope I'm wrong, but things sure look like they're shaping up for a repeat soon.

Yeah sort a, I dont think it will to much of a slowdown in area's where kWh are expensive. I do see the SC's of the business rolling up and selling the ongoing revenue (people paying the leases) to what we call superannuation funds, they love that long term recurring revenue stuff, it might make elon enough to survive his other issues and actually start to make money

[FFE]

So you posted on a forum filled with local installers and few National installers. What kind of response did you expect to get?

Any installer can go out of business and then rename their company and get a new license. A national company or a 50 year old roofing company can do this. I believe your best bet is to make sure you get quality equipment installed. That way it has the best chance of lasting and being warranted by the manufacturer. Some national companies will not let you spec the equipment. You are rolling the dice and hoping for good equipment. At least with a local company you have the best possibility of benefiting your local tax base more than a National company.

[J.P.M.]

Local established installer
Disclosure i work for one
Now my take on this
I was in this business when the Carter era credits expired.
All the big players were gone within months. ( reynolds aluminum, grumman, sears, revere etc)
Beware of the roofer electrician who runs this under a subsidiary business.
If the contract is under a name or license number other than the main bisiness than they can bow out without any liability.
A recent example of this is shuco who sold a lot of hot water systems.
They shut down the US subsidiary and skated on all warranty issues.
Those who fail to follow history are doomed to repeat it

I was around for that one too, but as a neophyte solar geek. It was a mess but woke up a lot of folks who had thought solar was the hands down future. Hope I'm wrong, but things sure look like they're shaping up for a repeat soon.

[Naptown]

Local established installer
Disclosure i work for one
Now my take on this
I was in this business when the Carter era credits expired.
All the big players were gone within months. ( reynolds aluminum, grumman, sears, revere etc)
Beware of the roofer electrician who runs this under a subsidiary business.
If the contract is under a name or license number other than the main bisiness than they can bow out without any liability.
A recent example of this is shuco who sold a lot of hot water systems.
They shut down the US subsidiary and skated on all warranty issues.
Those who fail to follow history are doomed to repeat it

[sensij]

That also seems extremely likely to me. I don't know much about other national companies, but I know that SolarCity is laser focused on reducing cost in order to stay competitive post FTC. I believe that was the reason they purchased Silevo and are manufacturing panels in the US. The cost of doing business will increase significantly. And when it does, companies that can offer a short payback period or lower price than market kWh rates will fare well.

SolarCity doesn't compete on price. They win business based on marketing. Anyone doing any sort of competent research would strike them off the list without a second thought. Post-ITC, they should be fine, because their customers are the most ignorant of the ignorant, and those folks will always be out there, ready to buy a good story no matter how poor the numbers work out. (no offense intended to SolarCity customers who may be reading this).

[gwelty]

Don't expect SolarCity or the other big companies to disappear after the tax credit expires. They will mostly cut back their operation, but they are still going to be around for a long time.
Many people point to their losses every year, but in reality, their structure is set up with high expenses up front, followed by 20 years of steady income. If they went out of business, then thousands of people would end up with an almost free system on their roof.

That also seems extremely likely to me. I don't know much about other national companies, but I know that SolarCity is laser focused on reducing cost in order to stay competitive post FTC. I believe that was the reason they purchased Silevo and are manufacturing panels in the US. The cost of doing business will increase significantly. And when it does, companies that can offer a short payback period or lower price than market kWh rates will fare well.

[foo1bar]

If they went out of business, then thousands of people would end up with an almost free system on their roof.

No... If they went out of business, those assets (payment streams) would be sold/auctioned off.
And the buyer of those would continue to collect the payments (and send to collection agencies those accounts who didn't pay)

Probably the meat of your comment is right - that they are front loading the expenses so much that it distorts the financial picture. And when the credits run out, I expect they'll decrease the sales force and the advertising and therefore lower their expenses.

I still think Valley Heating (real company BTW) is more likely to outlast Vivint.

[emartin00]

Each person is going to have their own reasons.

4> more likely to be around in 5 years. Slight edge to local diversified companies - Who's likely to be around when the easier money stops? "Valley heating, cooling, electrical and solar" who have been around for a long time and I think are profitable even without solar or "Vivint" who even during easy-money times is booking huge losses?

Don't expect SolarCity or the other big companies to disappear after the tax credit expires. They will mostly cut back their operation, but they are still going to be around for a long time.
Many people point to their losses every year, but in reality, their structure is set up with high expenses up front, followed by 20 years of steady income. If they went out of business, then thousands of people would end up with an almost free system on their roof.

[foo1bar]

Yep, I'm still not sold on local installers vs. national installers. It seems there's a preference, based on responses, for a local company, but I'd like to get a breakdown on why. Thanks!

Each person is going to have their own reasons.

My reasons would be
1> cost
2> cost
3> cost
4> more likely to be around in 5 years. Slight edge to local diversified companies - Who's likely to be around when the easier money stops? "Valley heating, cooling, electrical and solar" who have been around for a long time and I think are profitable even without solar or "Vivint" who even during easy-money times is booking huge losses?
5> They don't advertise as much (I'm sick of hearing the radio ads - and ads contribute to the first reason I gave)
6> Supporting local businesses
7> Reputation. Big negative on Solarcity IMO. Other companies there's question of whether a local reputation makes them work harder for a local customer. While with a big company they are possibly more going to be concerned about their reputation because they are so big... Hard to say really which way that goes.

[gwelty]

is it worth it to go with smaller company for a few thousand of savings

Yep, I'm still not sold on local installers vs. national installers. It seems there's a preference, based on responses, for a local company, but I'd like to get a breakdown on why. Thanks!