The Boom Gets Lowered On Residential Solar In Arizona

[Ian S]

The Board of Directors of Salt River Project, one of the two electric utilities in the Valley of the Sun voted to implement new solar fees that will amount to roughly $50 a month. Existing solar customers (those with systems prior to December, 2014) are grandfathered for 20 years. I expect APS to follow suit and this time, with the Corporation Commission members fully in APS' pocket, they'll get their way. Here's the story.

[Sunking]

Bout frickin time to make Solar users pay for it, and get it off the backs of the poor and rate payers who cannot afford to pay welfare to the rich. Come 2016 when the subsidies are gone Solar is DOA. From the sounds of it, solar is already bust in AZ. Time for installers to find a new job and learn to speak English or go back home. The owners of the solar businesses have already made their fortunes.

[J.P.M.]

Bout frickin time to make Solar users pay for it, and get it off the backs of the poor and rate payers who cannot afford to pay welfare to the rich. Come 2016 when the subsidies are gone Solar is DOA. From the sounds of it, solar is already bust in AZ. Time for installers to find a new job and learn to speak English or go back home. The owners of the solar businesses have already made their fortunes.

Lease prices may go down some.

I may need to bail on the solar stocks sooner rather than later.

[Ian S]

Bout frickin time to make Solar users pay for it, and get it off the backs of the poor and rate payers who cannot afford to pay welfare to the rich. Come 2016 when the subsidies are gone Solar is DOA. From the sounds of it, solar is already bust in AZ. Time for installers to find a new job and learn to speak English or go back home. The owners of the solar businesses have already made their fortunes.

Well, solar users aren't going to pay for it: they just won't install it. Which is the plan of course. The problem I have with the whole process is that the utility bought a consultant who, surprise, surprise, produced a plan in line with the utility's thinking. No effort whatsoever to get a true evaluation of the pluses and minuses of residential solar. I suspect SRP will, like APS, roll out their own rooftop solar scheme where they rent your roof for a few bucks a month off your electric bill. And with the millions they have to spend on marketing, I'm sure they'll get a number of sheeple to sign up.

[Sunking]

I may need to bail on the solar stocks sooner rather than later.

Don't get caught holding the bag. I liquidated in 2007 just before the bust. Solar stocks are only worth 1/20 to 1/10th what they were in 2007. Most went bankrupted, more to follow. Get out while you still can.

[J.P.M.]

Don't get caught holding the bag. I liquidated in 2007 just before the bust. Solar stocks are only worth 1/20 to 1/10th what they were in 2007. Most went bankrupted, more to follow. Get out while you still can.

except for the ETF I own the solar stocks and some Tesla were all purchased dollar cost ave. method, 2d half, 2012 with unexpected pension buyout money. Exit strategy in process.

[Sunking]

except for the ETF I own the solar stocks and some Tesla were all purchased dollar cost ave. method, 2d half, 2012 with unexpected pension buyout money. Exit strategy in process.

Smart man. I sold all my Solar stocks in 2007, gambled on Priceline for $52/share. and Amazon. Still hanging on to both in Roth. Priceline alone is enough to retire on. Today those shares 8 short years later are at over $1200/share. Easy money. Amazon i bought in around $32/share and today sell for $380ish

[J.P.M.]

Smart man. I sold all my Solar stocks in 2007, gambled on Priceline for $52/share. and Amazon. Still hanging on to both in Roth. Priceline alone is enough to retire on. Today those shares 8 short years later are at over $1200/share. Easy money. Amazon i bought in around $32/share and today sell for $380ish

Not necessarily smart, mostly lucky timing and remembering "risk nothing, be nothing."

[Sunking]

Not necessarily smart, mostly lucky timing and remembering "risk nothing, be nothing."

My Smart Man comment was referring to your exit strategy.

Yeah I gambled on Priceline and Amazon from proceeds of solar which was a very small holding at the time of some $10K so no big deal if I lost it. Safe gets you 3% gains in Money Markets which is really a loss when adjusted to inflation. You cannot get the big gains if you are not willing to take some risk. At the time I was pretty certain internet shopping was going to bring down brick and mortor establishments. Still kicking myself on not getting in on Google which still might be a good one if they pull off putting CATV out of business with their fiber to the house projects. Personally I choose ATT to do that and beat Google out of it, and ATT is cheap right now and under valued.

[HX_Guy]

As was talked about in the other thread...at least SRP is doing this on a "use basis" so that you can A) minimize the fee's being charged by being careful with your use and B) if you don't use the grid (vacation?), then you don't get penalized.

What the hell is APS thinking with their model? They asked for $8.00/kW AC at the end of 2013 and only got approved for $0.70/kW but I'm sure they will try again. How does that model make any sense? What if I go away for a month or more and shut off my system, so I'm not using the grid at all?

[Ian S]

As was talked about in the other thread...at least SRP is doing this on a "use basis" so that you can A) minimize the fee's being charged by being careful with your use and B) if you don't use the grid (vacation?), then you don't get penalized.

What the hell is APS thinking with their model? They asked for $8.00/kW AC at the end of 2013 and only got approved for $0.70/kW but I'm sure they will try again. How does that model make any sense? What if I go away for a month or more and shut off my system, so I'm not using the grid at all?

It doesn't make any sense and I don't think they'll try that approach again; much easier to go with SRP's scheme as the argument will be easier. And although they would grandfather existing installs, I suspect they'll nibble around the edges there too e.g. switch to an April trueup like SRP and apply it to all solar customers.

[thastinger]

Personally I choose ATT to do that and beat Google out of it, and ATT is cheap right now and under valued.

ATT doesn't already have an app tied into smart TVs nor does it produce a phone/table/OS to interface with them.

[Sunking]

ATT doesn't already have an app tied into smart TVs nor does it produce a phone/table/OS to interface with them.

I am talking about 1 Gb/s Ehternet fiber service to your home, not an app or a device.

Google has bought dark fiber in KCY, Salt Lake City, Provo, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Atlanta.

They are buying dark fiber laid in the late 90's and early 2000's by Worldcom that was never used. ATT already has the fiber, network, infrastructure, technology, manpower, 10 year head start, and most importantly free cash available. As of now CATV use to have the faster Internet service available of 50 Mb/s. Fiber is 1 Gb/s or 20 times the capacity. Google and ATT will carry Telephone, Internet, and streaming TV Networks. The big differences is internet speed, and Streaming TV network of your choice, and only what you want to pay for. If you only want 5 channels, that is all you pay for vs the take it or leave it packages SATV and CATV offers. Neither CATV or SATV can match Fiber bandwidth or service via microwave or Coax mediums.

What is ironic is the USA is far behind in communications technology Even Panama is ahead of the USA, I got fiber and would never go back to copper services.

[HX_Guy]

It doesn't make any sense and I don't think they'll try that approach again; much easier to go with SRP's scheme as the argument will be easier. And although they would grandfather existing installs, I suspect they'll nibble around the edges there too e.g. switch to an April trueup like SRP and apply it to all solar customers.

The trueup thing in April would really suck and be unfair as I for one did calculations on my system size, ROI, etc based on the current system and being able to bank credits for the summer.

As for the SRP approach with Demand, at least there is a chance to make the fee as small as possible by not using a lot of power between say 4pm - 7pm. Prior to 4pm the system should cover more than is being used...

Unless of course SPR is using a meter that sees the usage prior to the service panel? Right now APS only sees net power being used from their grid...so if the house is using 5kW but the solar is producing 6kw, they see it as a 1kw production with no usage.

[Ian S]

The trueup thing in April would really suck and be unfair as I for one did calculations on my system size, ROI, etc based on the current system and being able to bank credits for the summer.

As for the SRP approach with Demand, at least there is a chance to make the fee as small as possible by not using a lot of power between say 4pm - 7pm. Prior to 4pm the system should cover more than is being used...

Unless of course SPR is using a meter that sees the usage prior to the service panel? Right now APS only sees net power being used from their grid...so if the house is using 5kW but the solar is producing 6kw, they see it as a 1kw production with no usage.

As I understand it, SRP will only charge based on demand from the grid. Interestingly, my APS meter shows that demand number. Guess they thought ahead!