Interesting articles on EV, utilities, renewables and their impacts

[russ]

Something like the first EV that GM made and then all were destroyed because someone said they were "not worth while".

GM proved a point that an electric car could be produced and was a working solution to reducing pollution but they (IMO) were forced to shut down the operation by "others".

They still are not ready today (the EV) - that "Who killed the EV story" - I always considered that a green story - like the 100 mpg carb.

[SunEagle]

Very true! But that 5-year wait is a very old stalling tactic to prevent those from trying to use what works and is on the market now, always investing in the future, but never realizing it. If it never makes it to market, then you have a very nice patent-warchest from which to make your investment grow from NPE's that buy you out. Sad.

Either that, or the product is very limited in quantity, only to satisfy California Air Resource Board requirements, then quickly shelved once that requirement has been met to allow them to concentrate on the old resources until they run out. From a business perspective, that makes total sense.

Something like the first EV that GM made and then all were destroyed because someone said they were "not worth while".

GM proved a point that an electric car could be produced and was a working solution to reducing pollution but they (IMO) were forced to shut down the operation by "others".

[PNjunction]

Maybe the "holy grail" of batteries will be found in the next 5 years or so but even then it takes years and lots of funding to get a new idea from the lab into the commercial market.

Very true! But that 5-year wait is a very old stalling tactic to prevent those from trying to use what works and is on the market now, always investing in the future, but never realizing it. If it never makes it to market, then you have a very nice patent-warchest from which to make your investment grow from NPE's that buy you out. Sad.

Either that, or the product is very limited in quantity, only to satisfy California Air Resource Board requirements, then quickly shelved once that requirement has been met to allow them to concentrate on the old resources until they run out. From a business perspective, that makes total sense.

[Mike90250]

Americans are fortunate to have an abundant supply of renewable energy resources throughout the United States. The Strategic Directions in the U.S. Electric Utility Sector Report, showed a fundamental basic changes that power utilities industry needs to go. The sixth-annual report was published Monday by Black and Veatch, a consultation and construction firm. Read this here: Renewable Energy.

All fixed up now !

[SunEagle]

We have been struggling with the battery problem for a century and a half, and progress has only
been incremental. Don't hold your breath. Batteries are for when there is no other way.

Now here is my idea. We build this big steel ring around the equator, which can rotate on
bearings. People with extra energy push on it to go faster; those needing energy take some
and slow it down. It averages out the sun and the night, the tides, the winds.

There might be some new engineering challenges. Bruce Roe

You think!!!

I still like the idea of trapping a black hole and .... oh never mind.

[russ]

There might be some new engineering challenges. Bruce Roe

LOL

[bcroe]

I agree with your math. Storing RE energy in batteries is still very expensive and far outside the reach of most people even here in the US. Maybe the "holy grail" of batteries will be found in the next 5 years or so but even then it takes years and lots of funding to get a new idea from the lab into the commercial market.

We have been struggling with the battery problem for a century and a half, and progress has only
been incremental. Don't hold your breath. Batteries are for when there is no other way.

Now here is my idea. We build this big steel ring around the equator, which can rotate on
bearings. People with extra energy push on it to go faster; those needing energy take some
and slow it down. It averages out the sun and the night, the tides, the winds.

There might be some new engineering challenges. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

Let's do some quick back of the envelope math under best scenario:
- Say cost of Li ion batteries come down to $100 / KWh.
- Average house probably needs 25 to 50 KWh of capacity
- So $2500 to $5000 of batteries
- Tack on $3000 of inverter and associated electronics
- Another $3000 to install

We're looking at close to $10K to have an off grid system, and who knows how long the batteries/inverter will work. I love the idea but it's got a ways to go before making any economic sense.

I agree with your math. Storing RE energy in batteries is still very expensive and far outside the reach of most people even here in the US. Maybe the "holy grail" of batteries will be found in the next 5 years or so but even then it takes years and lots of funding to get a new idea from the lab into the commercial market.

[JCP]

Let us know when/how you solve that problem. It is the key to many REs. I spent a year
looking at it, then net metered to the Nuke down the road.

For now if net metering goes away, it will wipe out the practicality of all sorts of RE.
Sure big energy would be happy, but I don't think they will win this one. Bruce Roe

Let's do some quick back of the envelope math under best scenario:
- Say cost of Li ion batteries come down to $100 / KWh.
- Average house probably needs 25 to 50 KWh of capacity
- So $2500 to $5000 of batteries
- Tack on $3000 of inverter and associated electronics
- Another $3000 to install

We're looking at close to $10K to have an off grid system, and who knows how long the batteries/inverter will work. I love the idea but it's got a ways to go before making any economic sense.

[bcroe]

I myself will be working on a practical way to locally store the excess
energy that my array produces during peak sunlight hours then meter it back during my
home's high demand times when the array is not producing. Net metering policies are
going to go away when our government swings back to the traditionalists you see.

Let us know when/how you solve that problem. It is the key to many REs. I spent a year
looking at it, then net metered to the Nuke down the road.

For now if net metering goes away, it will wipe out the practicality of all sorts of RE.
Sure big energy would be happy, but I don't think they will win this one. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

The article may exaggerate the problem. See here for more. In any event, the number of bird deaths pales in comparison to the billions killed by the nation's cat population.

I spent some time last Spring driving around the Ivanpah site before getting the bum's rush from security. FWIW, I didn't see one fried bird. It may not be a cost effective tech., but based on my admittedly brief encounter, it also doesn't look like much of a bird killer. FWIW, I didn't see too much other wildlife in there either. The mirror fields are fenced off tending to keep rabbits & larger animals out. Also, I wonder if the mirrors interfere with a bird's view of the terrain, making the area a meager hunting ground, so maybe birds tend to avoid the area as not a good place to find chow.

[inetdog]

Those were heady times for us humans. We put a man on the moon just a few years later. Litle did we realize that the effort was puerly militaristic. Our government had just had the crap scared out of it by an ICBM named Sputnik....

If the moon had proved to be strategic to the military, we'd have built bases there. If orbiting solar collectors had strategic military value, we'd have those too.

After Sputnik went up, the US went into frantic catch-up mode with satellite programs from different arms of the military and civilian agencies.
These were described in the press as "crash projects". Perhaps an inauspicious term.
Anyway, at one press conference Dr. Werner vonBraun, the head of our space program, was asked just what a "crash project" was.
His reply: "Vell, you can tink of it as getting 9 vimmen pregnant to try to produce a baby in vun month."

[kwilcox]

Just go back to the 1962-63 worlds fair....

Those were heady times for us humans. We put a man on the moon just a few years later. Litle did we realize that the effort was puerly militaristic. Our government had just had the crap scared out of it by an ICBM named Sputnik....

If the moon had proved to be strategic to the military, we'd have built bases there. If orbiting solar collectors had strategic military value, we'd have those too.

[Ian S]

Considering that article is written by the very company that owns and operates the facility in quesiton, it's conclusions and SOME of its statistics are certainly questionable. I would rather see an analysis by some independant third party with no dog in the hunt.

Certainly an independent study is warranted. However, based on the desert location, I can't imagine the size of the bird population being terribly large - certainly not like more moderate climate areas. I would also say that this type of generator is not the only approach to thermal solar: the Solana plant near Gila Bend utilizes a trough concentration approach that shouldn't bother birds flying by.

[SunEagle]

Mea culpa; it was not my intention to come off as parochial. It just seems to me that the same old strategies are being rehashed here. Call me a greenie if you want but I firmly believe that these same strategies are having a near-term caststrophic impact on our planet's climate. I also believe that PWR nukes are a waste of time, effort & money because they scare people to death. That won't ever change because they melt down with spectacular impact on a regular basis.

Please excuse those who are therefore trying to think outside the box to solve this. the explosion of grid tie PV and other RE generation sources and the impact it is having on the traditional power delivery model is what I believe to be an example of this effort in action. Thanks goes to Fukishima for driving most of it too. The next PWR meltdown event will further accelerate the effort. I firmly believe that this is also a fact.

Finally, Science Fiction has a reliable track record of becoming Science Fact in increasingly shorter timeframes. My hat is off to those who play an active role here and I hope to see them in action as Germany faces its power delivery dilemma. I myself will be working on a practical way to locally store the excess energy that my array produces during peak sunlight hours then meter it back during my home's high demand times when the array is not producing. Net metering policies are going to go away when our government swings back to the traditionalists you see.

I agree that some of the things that were written about in Science Fiction have come to past but most of the future technologies that were depicted aren't even close to being an every day event.

Just go back to the 1962-63 worlds fair. They had cars that flew and bases on the moon by the year 2000. There were also these giant space stations where people could vacation. There was also an exhibit that did relate to using solar panels in space for power. Unfortunately except for our little "space station" all that was talked about then as being "soon to come" is still science fiction. Seems other priorities are always in the way of finding a better way to produce energy.