Are your Home Solar Panels Facing in the Wrong Direction

[bcroe]

Daily power profile

Not all of us are constrained to roof mounts. I would like to see a convenient way
to shape how fast power ramps at sunrise/sunset, how the output curve could be
made more flat than the midday peak of only south facing, using panels of various
orientations. Doing projections on various individual setups and combining them is
a pretty slow successive-approximation method. The gain is more energy under
the total curve for a given peak level, or better utilization of a given investment in
wire and inverters. Obviously there is a point of diminishing returns.

Something else to consider: When cloudy, the specific orientation is not as critical.

Bruce Roe

[bonaire]

Grid peak demand can be high through 9pm. See ferc.gov for various grid demand curve charts in different regulated markets.

[inetdog]

Interesting information. One reason I have hesitated installing a PV system was due to the small area of Southerly facing roof which would not allow a system bigger than 5kw.

I have more roof facing West that doesn't get much sun until about 10 AM but has no shade until the sun goes down. Now with this little bit of info I may think of at least getting some quotes on a system incorporating both South and West facing roofs. A bigger system may be able to get the $/watt cost down than a small system.

If you have TOU pricing and the peak or near peak extends into the late afternoon, but does not include the morning hours, then a west-facing array may actually get you a greater return on your grid-tie investment than a south-facing array.

Also take into account when your loads will be scheduled. If the home is empty during the day but you need the AC on before you get home, west-facing may be the way to go for someone who gets a wholesale repurchase price instead of net metering.

[SunEagle]

If you have TOU pricing and the peak or near peak extends into the late afternoon, but does not include the morning hours, then a west-facing array may actually get you a greater return on your grid-tie investment than a south-facing array.

Also take into account when your loads will be scheduled. If the home is empty during the day but you need the AC on before you get home, west-facing may be the way to go for someone who gets a wholesale repurchase price instead of net metering.

Both good suggestions but neither apply for me. While I have two rates it is not TOU.

I have a rate of $0.10 up to 1000 kWh and then $0.12 for anything above.

I also have my wife and mother in law that are in the house all day so the usage changes both hourly and daily.

Still something to think about anyway. I am hoping that Florida gets in step with other states pushing for renewables. Until then there is no way I can lease a system or get any rebates to help reduce my installed cost.

[albert436]

Grid peak demand can be high through 9pm. See ferc.gov for various grid demand curve charts in different regulated markets.

Might you be able to post a link to a specific part of that site? I'm not quite sure where to look.

Thanks.

[J.P.M.]

Might you be able to post a link to a specific part of that site? I'm not quite sure where to look.

Thanks.

If you're looking for T.O.U. rates, check the SDG & E web site. also, be aware that AB 327 will probably change things some. Also, Rates change about every 3 months or so.

[albert436]

Thanks, I found those and copy/pasted them into my thread.

I haven't paid too much attention to rate changes, but I was alarmed when SDGE sued to make solar owners pay a premium.

The link I was looking for had to do with the demand curves mentioned. (not even sure I would understand them!)

SunSmiley1.gif

[Sunking]

I haven't paid too much attention to rate changes, but I was alarmed when SDGE sued to make solar owners pay a premium.

Solar Panel Owners should pay a premium. Many more Electric Companies are going to take SDGE lead and start suing state governments for failing enitlement programs that do not benefit anyone.

[Volusiano]

I was alarmed when SDGE sued to make solar owners pay a premium.

The AZ Corporate Commission recently held a hearing for APS where they decide to start implementing a solar service fee to solar customer. I don't remember the exact figure, but I think it was $0.70 for every kw in your system size (you get charged $7/month if your system size is 10kw). This is not final/permanent and may be subject to change again in the next rate case hearing. APS wants to charge a service fee of $50 or more, so they didn't quite get their way for now.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks, I found those and copy/pasted them into my thread.

I haven't paid too much attention to rate changes, but I was alarmed when SDGE sued to make solar owners pay a premium.

The link I was looking for had to do with the demand curves mentioned. (not even sure I would understand them!)

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SDG & E may sue some folks or businesses but their request to charge net metering customers $10/month was part of a request filed with the CPUC. I do not think litigation was involved. Other CA investor owned utilities were involved and it finally came about as a result of the AB 327 legislation. That's a lot different than suing. I'm no fan of POCO's but the current practice of net metering seems unsustainable as a business model (kind of hard to buy something for the same price you sell it and make money) and somewhat unfair from a non solar ratepayer standpoint. Who pays for the infrastructure among other things ?

[Volusiano]

SDG & E may sue some folks or businesses but their request to charge net metering customers $10/month was part of a request filed with the CPUC. I do not think litigation was involved. Other CA investor owned utilities were involved and it finally came about as a result of the AB 327 legislation. That's a lot different than suing. I'm no fan of POCO's but the current practice of net metering seems unsustainable as a business model (kind of hard to buy something for the same price you sell it and make money) and somewhat unfair from a non solar ratepayer standpoint. Who pays for the infrastructure among other things ?

Here's a thread about this discussion a little while back during the AZ corporate commission hearing with APS and the solar industry. There are some good links in there about the pros and cons of the debate if anyone is interested in reading up.

[russ]

SDG & E may sue some folks or businesses but their request to charge net metering customers $10/month was part of a request filed with the CPUC. I do not think litigation was involved. Other CA investor owned utilities were involved and it finally came about as a result of the AB 327 legislation. That's a lot different than suing. I'm no fan of POCO's but the current practice of net metering seems unsustainable as a business model (kind of hard to buy something for the same price you sell it and make money) and somewhat unfair from a non solar ratepayer standpoint. Who pays for the infrastructure among other things ?

100% correct - There is no good reason to force everyone to support those that install solar.

My complaint about leasing is that it is set up so the leasing company makes the money at the expense of the home owner and the government. It should have been arranged where the home owner gets the full advantage.

[albert436]

SDG & E may sue some folks or businesses but their request to charge net metering customers $10/month was part of a request filed with the CPUC. I do not think litigation was involved. Other CA investor owned utilities were involved and it finally came about as a result of the AB 327 legislation. That's a lot different than suing. I'm no fan of POCO's but the current practice of net metering seems unsustainable as a business model (kind of hard to buy something for the same price you sell it and make money) and somewhat unfair from a non solar ratepayer standpoint. Who pays for the infrastructure among other things ?

You are absolutely right, let me rephrase that just to say the matter was settled in court -- my mistake, very careless wording there.

Oh time to get ready for work, darn it, will have to resume discussion later!

[albert436]

Solar Panel Owners should pay a premium. Many more Electric Companies are going to take SDGE lead and start suing state governments for failing enitlement programs that do not benefit anyone.

Dude.jpg

[J.P.M.]

100% correct - There is no good reason to force everyone to support those that install solar.

My complaint about leasing is that it is set up so the leasing company makes the money at the expense of the home owner and the government. It should have been arranged where the home owner gets the full advantage.

One thing that might be done : Get rid of the accelerated depreciation that the IRS allows for corps. who own leases, or arrange the situation so all solar owners can take advantage of it. As a bit of a closet Libertarian, I'd support getting rid of it.