Innovative Solar Companies - Who Are They?

[reidsteven75]

I'm trying to get a sense of what type of innovation is actually being pulled off in the solar industry.
More specifically the residential sector in the USA.

From my understanding the common problems with consumer adoption of solar are (with potential solutions):

1) Installation cost
Depending on the city there's a lot of "soft costs" associated with an installation like: sales tax, customer acquisition, permitting, labour, supply.
I've seen some companies offer Solar-as-a-Service, where there are no upfront costs and the consumer pays the energy provider a monthly fee.

2) Energy availability
Sometimes the sun doesn't shine when you need it.
Energy storage techniques and net-metering seem to solve this.
I think the best solution would be a battery-backup with net-metering as an option.

3) Consumers don't understand benefits
This is more of a public perception and marketing problem.

Solar City seems to be on the forefront of tackling this; however there must be some other companies who either aren't in the limelight yet or are just starting up.

Who are some of these unheard of, but innovative solar companies focusing on consumers?

[russ]

I'm trying to get a sense of what type of innovation is actually being pulled off in the solar industry.
More specifically the residential sector in the USA.

The leasing companies are all about tax breaks and investments - solar just happens to be a vehicle.

If not for gross tax breaks and subsidies there would be very little solar today -

[Endless Sun Solar]

Thin Film & Racking

Hi all,

I haven't seen any new technologies in particular that blow me away, but I always thought that once thin film solar prices get low enough that they would become the next big thing due to easy installation. Unisolar isn't a company anymore, but I thought that their peel and stick solar was a clever idea. The idea of having the adhesive stuff on your roof is annoying, but better than drilling into the roof imo.

The most room for innovation is really in installation right now, so once simpler and faster racking becomes available, so that will be something to watch. I always liked the solyndra design in how it came with its own racking, and the 200 series didn't even require grounding. If we can get somehow get standard crystalline panels to install that easily, everything would change imo!

[tylertim]

Generally, I haven't been impressed too much by new solar technology, though when it comes to making buildings more environmentally friendly, there will be a big market in the future - especially for solar installations: http://www.statista.com/topics/1169/...ngs-in-the-us/

I did see some interesting ideas in Germany, however. Some wind generators lined the central divide on the autobahn, powering nearby lights and signs. It got me reading some more articles and there are plans for solar roads...or at least a panel on top of normal roads which could be the world's power source of the future. Maybe a bit far fetched but very interesting.

[SunEagle]

Hi all,

I haven't seen any new technologies in particular that blow me away, but I always thought that once thin film solar prices get low enough that they would become the next big thing due to easy installation. Unisolar isn't a company anymore, but I thought that their peel and stick solar was a clever idea. The idea of having the adhesive stuff on your roof is annoying, but better than drilling into the roof imo.

The most room for innovation is really in installation right now, so once simpler and faster racking becomes available, so that will be something to watch. I always liked the solyndra design in how it came with its own racking, and the 200 series didn't even require grounding. If we can get somehow get standard crystalline panels to install that easily, everything would change imo!

The issue with thin film solar panels is not having the ability to keep them cool since they were designed to be applied directly on the roof. Their lifespan was greatly reduced due to overheating which is why you don't see them and Unisolar went out of business.

There is still a lot of research with CdTe type cells but unless they solve the heat problems to get longer life it is a dead end.

[Endless Sun Solar]

Amorphous Performance Under High Temperature

The issue with thin film solar panels is not having the ability to keep them cool since they were designed to be applied directly on the roof. Their lifespan was greatly reduced due to overheating which is why you don't see them and Unisolar went out of business.

There is still a lot of research with CdTe type cells but unless they solve the heat problems to get longer life it is a dead end.

Which thin film materials are you talking about that have the heat problem? I read that Amorphous Thin Film and CIGS improve with heat up to a point, and then they lose performance slower than crystalline would. I don't have experience with CdTe though, so that might be the case with them. As far as lifespan, I did hear that the Unisolar panels weren't lasting as long as the Unisolar had said.

But I agree there's definitely more work to be done on thin film though! I think for technologies like CIGS, once they can get the cost down enough, that it will eventually take over.

I read about the solar road idea too, but I don't think that will happen for a good while. It's definitely an interesting idea though, since the roads are always there and many don't always have a car over them.

[SunEagle]

Which thin film materials are you talking about that have the heat problem? I read that Amorphous Thin Film and CIGS improve with heat up to a point, and then they lose performance slower than crystalline would. I don't have experience with CdTe though, so that might be the case with them. As far as lifespan, I did hear that the Unisolar panels weren't lasting as long as the Unisolar had said.

But I agree there's definitely more work to be done on thin film though! I think for technologies like CIGS, once they can get the cost down enough, that it will eventually take over.

I read about the solar road idea too, but I don't think that will happen for a good while. It's definitely an interesting idea though, since the roads are always there and many don't always have a car over them.

Heat is bad for any type of solar cell material. If it builds up too much things start to deform and break down leading to failure. What was thought to be a great idea by rolling out the solar panel and sticking it to a metal roof without the high cost of a framework ended up with early failures due to the lack of cooling.

I use to do research on Cadmium Sulfide thin film back in the 70's. The idea was to use cheap and plentiful material. They worked but never got efficiencies to make them profitable. Heat was one area of concern. My research determined that using too high a heat to make the cells (we use to laminate them between polymer film) would clip the efficiency but increasing the sheet resistance of the cell material. I found that using a lower heat for a slightly longer period got the results we needed to seal the cell in polymer but did not increase the resistance. The newer process resulted in a slightly higher efficiency but still not enough to make them a viable solar cell. We also determined that without a way to cool the entire panel of cells we would start to get cell failures. Basically heat was bad.

[Endless Sun Solar]

Reply

Heat is bad for any type of solar cell material. If it builds up too much things start to deform and break down leading to failure. What was thought to be a great idea by rolling out the solar panel and sticking it to a metal roof without the high cost of a framework ended up with early failures due to the lack of cooling.

I use to do research on Cadmium Sulfide thin film back in the 70's. The idea was to use cheap and plentiful material. They worked but never got efficiencies to make them profitable. Heat was one area of concern. My research determined that using too high a heat to make the cells (we use to laminate them between polymer film) would clip the efficiency but increasing the sheet resistance of the cell material. I found that using a lower heat for a slightly longer period got the results we needed to seal the cell in polymer but did not increase the resistance. The newer process resulted in a slightly higher efficiency but still not enough to make them a viable solar cell. We also determined that without a way to cool the entire panel of cells we would start to get cell failures. Basically heat was bad.

True, I was thinking about how they handle heat over the short term, I never really thought about long term degradation from heat like you are saying, thats a great point. And wow, thank you for sharing! That's really interesting that you got to do research on that. It's too bad they don't get high enough efficiencies, what do you think will be the future applications of thin film then?

Also if you don't mind answering a quick question I have had, how do you think Solyndra panels will hold up in the long term? I always see cheap ones on ebay and am always interested in picking up a few. The self cleaning, included simple racking, and tubular design was pretty interesting to me..in my area we don't have affordable solar installers, which really makes the simple installation attractive as I could do a decent amount myself.

[SunEagle]

True, I was thinking about how they handle heat over the short term, I never really thought about long term degradation from heat like you are saying, thats a great point. And wow, thank you for sharing! That's really interesting that you got to do research on that. It's too bad they don't get high enough efficiencies, what do you think will be the future applications of thin film then?

Also if you don't mind answering a quick question I have had, how do you think Solyndra panels will hold up in the long term? I always see cheap ones on ebay and am always interested in picking up a few. The self cleaning, included simple racking, and tubular design was pretty interesting to me..in my area we don't have affordable solar installers, which really makes the simple installation attractive as I could do a decent amount myself.

Thin film solar cells do work as long as they mounted in rigid frame panels supported off the ground or roof. Check out the Catalina Solar Farm in the Mojave desert. The scope is going to be about 143 MW when it is done using over 1 million thin film panels from First Solar and Solar Frontier. The technology works but you still have to deal with the heat.

I have seen the Solyndra tube panels but have no true knowledge on how well they work. At least the design allowed air flow between the tubes but as for longevity, who knows.

[Endless Sun Solar]

CdTe

Thin film solar cells do work as long as they mounted in rigid frame panels supported off the ground or roof. Check out the Catalina Solar Farm in the Mojave desert. The scope is going to be about 143 MW when it is done using over 1 million thin film panels from First Solar and Solar Frontier. The technology works but you still have to deal with the heat.

I have seen the Solyndra tube panels but have no true knowledge on how well they work. At least the design allowed air flow between the tubes but as for longevity, who knows.

Wow, that's huge. I'd like to visit that someday! I actually heard Lieberrose Solarpark in Germany used 750,000 First Solar CdTe modules, which I think is ideal for somewhere like Germany that doesn't get lots of direct sunlight. For the Mojave desert though I would think that crystalline panels would be better because there is so much direct sunlight that it takes away some of the big benefits of CdTe. But at that large of a scale, the cost was probably low enough to mitigate that.

And yeah that is what I was thinking, but really at this point for the Solyndra Modules, one can never know unless you try yourself. Oh well, thank you!

[brokejame]

Ford

Ford reveals a new car which have solar panels at roof. I think in future, we have cars which don't require any fuel.

[russ]

Ford reveals a new car which have solar panels at roof. I think in future, we have cars which don't require any fuel.

Please think and realize the amount of kW a car needs to move - the square area required for the panels and how many sun hours are required daily to support the car.

The Fresnel lens arrangement Ford came up with is beyond stupid actually. It must be the brainchild of a big bosse's (maybe Ford family member) kid or some such thing. This should have never seen the light of day!

[J.P.M.]

Please think and realize the amount of kW a car needs to move - the square area required for the panels and how many sun hours are required daily to support the car.

The Fresnel lens arrangement Ford came up with is beyond stupid actually. It must be the brainchild of a big bosse's (maybe Ford family member) kid or some such thing. This should have never seen the light of day!

5 min. back of the envelope math/dart throw gives me something like : if that car sat under full sun for an average hr., the panels on the roof would collect enough energy to move it about 1 mile, maybe a bit more under noon sun. Seems like a waste and a gimmick IMO.

[creeky]

first: Hi. I'm new to the community. So take everything I say with a block of salt

in my favour. i'm a canuck and we're wonderful folks. and I've been living off the grid with a 1000 watt solar system for going on 4 years. (Just added another 500, so now 1500 and adding 500 more come spring)

But back to the thread.

wait a second. re: ford solar panel roof.

the benefit of this kind of tech is two fold. most importantly I believe the purpose of this small solar panel is to run fans etc while the car is parked. this should take a considerable load off the battery when it's owner returns and turns on the air con.

second it helps normalize solar tech for the, er, unwashed masses.

[russ]

re: ford solar panel roof.

the benefit of this kind of tech is two fold. most importantly I believe the purpose of this small solar panel is to run fans etc while the car is parked. this should take a considerable load off the battery when it's owner returns and turns on the air con.

second it helps normalize solar tech for the, er, unwashed masses.

Hi Creeky - Welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

You will find our site short on green blather and we try to be long on practical.

1) Ford is advertising this as "THE" primary power supply for the car - not for power when it is not in use

2) Applications such as this give the public a taste of solar that has a lot of BS mixed in - not a good thing.

3) When the owner turns the AC on it will help? Look at the advertisement before saying such things.

Russ