"Incentive Programs" and opting out of connection agreements

[Rade]

I'm... pissed.

Long story long. A little over a year ago, when we first got our Generac solar rig and batteries installed, we were sold a bill of goods to join a "Generac Incentive Program" wherein, Generac would "...periodically - up to 150 times a season" (supposed to be once every 3-4 days) take control of our inverter and sell the stored energy back to the grid. We were to be paid a seemingly large chunk of change annually for this energy transaction. Well... the Devil was certainly in the details on that deal. When the "incentive program" kicked in, I would discover that the low-battery threshold would be reduced to 20% (remaining power in the batteries) and that Generac, using GRID TIE, would channel everything in the batteries to the grid down to that level. 1) I had been using the batteries to power our home over night (we'd have about 45% left in the tank by morning) 2) When they would be done well after dark, I would be sucking energy from the grid until the arrays came online in the morning. Okay, 1 night, fine. They did it a second night... then a 3rd night... IN A ROW. That next day, we had severe storms and, gosh, NOTHING IN THE BATTERIES to support the house during an outage. I complained to Generac that they were leaving my home vulnerable. Their response was "20% is just fine for you!" I pulled the agreement. In the fine print, it states that they can pull power whenever they feel like it, there is nothing I can do - no recourse except to opt out of the program. Then the 4th night IN A ROW, they started sucking down my batteries again. I manually swapped the inverter from GRID TIE over to Self Supply, went to the online portal and opted out of the program. They stopped mucking with my system immediately. Never had another like issue.

Until this week.

Received an Email from an outfit out of Brooklyn, NY called "EnergyHub" letting me know that I have been "scheduled for a "Connected Solutions Battery Event" (today) from 5-7PM" where during these hours my batteries will discharge. This time, there has been no recourse, no phone number to call, no SIGNED AGREEMENT. Just this... outfit stating they were going to take control of my system.

I'm pissed.

Has anyone here had to deal with "EnergyHub", or do I need to get the Rhode Island PUC / AG involved?

Thanks,
Rade

UPDATE: I was able to work with my POCO and a very nice contact at the energy office of the State of Rhode Island, and they were able to withdraw my system from the program. Successful outcomes and did not get trapped in any bureaucratic nonsense.

This issue is closed.

[Ampster]

I looked into the California Self Generation Incentive Program and decided to pass because it would have required me to enter into a paired storage agreement with PG&E and I did not want that level of scrutiny. Instead I pulled a building permit and found and exception in PG&E's rules that allowed a back up system without an interconnection agreement. I do have a PTO under NEM 2.0 for my GT system.

[Ampster]

My post was responding to what I thought was the subject in the title. After rereading the thread, I realize the OP is talking about a Virtual Power Plant (VPP) program which does not involve scrutiny or a paired storage agreement. Tesla has been a leader in this and participants have reported positive results. Unfortunately they seem to be equipment specific and none are yet offered for SolArk inverters. My CCA, Sonoma Clean Power, has a pilot program with Enphase equipment. There are lower level programs which are voluntary such as Ohm Connect which pay you an incentive if you can reduce consumption during during times when the grid is stressed. That includes compensation for sending more to the grid as well. That is feasible for me since some of my panels are configured to the West and I can adjust how much my batteries can discharge into the grid and to what minimum SOC they can discharge. I may sign up for one of those programs but they don't pay as well as true VPP programs but do help the grid.

[Rade]

My post was responding to what I thought was the subject in the title. After rereading the thread, I realize the OP is talking about a Virtual Power Plant (VPP) program which does not involve scrutiny or a paired storage agreement. Tesla has been a leader in this and participants have reported positive results. Unfortunately they seem to be equipment specific and none are yet offered for SolArk inverters. My CCA, Sonoma Clean Power, has a pilot program with Enphase equipment. There are lower level programs which are voluntary such as Ohm Connect which pay you an incentive if you can reduce consumption during during times when the grid is stressed. That includes compensation for sending more to the grid as well. That is feasible for me since some of my panels are configured to the West and I can adjust how much my batteries can discharge into the grid and to what minimum SOC they can discharge. I may sign up for one of those programs but they don't pay as well as true VPP programs but do help the grid.

That sounds like a good balance and that your system can accommodate the program quite nicely. The program offered to me did not allow me any choice on how much can be discharged to the grid, and it continued to completely deplete my storage nightly forcing me to use grid power until the panels came on line in the morning. The main purpose I have batteries is for emergency power; secondarily for powering the house when the weather is clear. The program offered here allowed neither.

I do believe if we lived in a more sun-centric location, the program would probably have been acceptable.

[Ampster]

........
I do believe if we lived in a more sun-centric location, the program would probably have been acceptable.

It sounds more like a limitation on programmability of the inverter, battery capacity or a combination of both. Typically those events have occurred in the summer when my loads are less because my heat is from electricity. In summer my 35 kWh battery overnight gets to an SOC of 70% and I could easily have sent 7 kWhs to the grid during the two hour window that those events take place. That still would have left me with 50% SOC in the morning as a reserve, in case we had a power outage.

I should mention that my daily production in summer is one and one half times my pack size. Winter is another story and I typically use the grid as seasonal storage. Your mileage may be different.

[Rade]

It sounds more like a limitation on programmability of the inverter, battery capacity or a combination of both. Typically those events have occurred in the summer when my loads are less because my heat is from electricity. In summer my 35 kWh battery overnight gets to an SOC of 70% and I could easily have sent 7 kWhs to the grid during the two hour window that those events take place. That still would have left me with 50% SOC in the morning as a reserve, in case we had a power outage.

I should mention that my daily production in summer is one and one half times my pack size. Winter is another story and I typically use the grid as seasonal storage. Your mileage may be different.

Ergo the rub. The program office continued to change the settings on my storage every night down to 20% remaining; I have no control over it. This went on for 3 nights before I unsubscribed from the program.