Tesla New York Factory, pretty telling article

[Old_Man]

Not my circus, not my monkeys. Their problem. There's always some jerk trying to climb over seven players so I am very happy to be retired.

[J.P.M.]

I had my job sent to pakistan, russia, India, Costa Rica and Nicaragua. That doesn't even count the jobs I lost to H1B visa holder. American manufacturers can go directly to hell and they can puke their guts out. I may be American but I'm NOT proud of it. Not after DJT. That arsehole.

Labor is a fungible quantity. American manufacturers didn't go to hell, just to where the cost of labor is lower. What did you expect ? Have you ever comparison shopped and bought low buck for a commodity ? Ever shop at Walmart ?

[Old_Man]

I had my job sent to pakistan, russia, India, Costa Rica and Nicaragua. That doesn't even count the jobs I lost to H1B visa holder. American manufacturers can go directly to hell and they can puke their guts out. I may be American but I'm NOT proud of it. Not after DJT. That arsehole.

[jflorey2]

The US can make affordable products if the market is there.

I would like to think so, but all evidence points to this being impossible. You mentioned the reason:

it comes down the the labor cost and the cost of doing business here in the US.

[Old_Man]

I feel the bigger part of the problem is that US workers are demanding higher wages which drives up the cost of solar. And if they can't sell their product they close up their plant or go over seas to manufacturer the product. Much lower wages in other countries.

If that was not true then maybe companies like Tesla would be making solar products here in the US.

Virtually ALL PV solar is manufactured in China. Longi makes the best cells, too. By the way, nice views on American workers. Globalist, are ya? Me, too.

Folks forget, or are never made aware, Renogy is a Chinese company selling Chinese products. Don't be fooled. Ask Will Prowse. They make great stuff...in China.

[GoingElectric]

There is no question that people are not getting quality installations in all countries but look here in this forum concerning all of the people that are not happy with what they got in the US.

Why can you get a quality solar install in Australia and still be paying a lot less then here in the US?

Yes, that is disparity. Gets into weeds of why the disparity.

[SunEagle]

Agree.
Then again, see some of pictures and video of people working in other countries, namely Asia?

There is no question that people are not getting quality installations in all countries but look here in this forum concerning all of the people that are not happy with what they got in the US.

Why can you get a quality solar install in Australia and still be paying a lot less then here in the US?

[GoingElectric]

... I feel it comes down the the labor cost and the cost of doing business here in the US.

Agree.
Then again, see some of pictures and video of people working in other countries, namely Asia?

[SunEagle]

Cost of living in US is higher, thus wages have to be higher. The flip side Americans enjoy more services, security, opportunism, mobility, and luxuries than other countries.
The US can make competitively priced items, aircraft and automobiles are 2 examples.

It when volumes are >1 million units (especially small items) does low cost labor edge up over local.

The US can make affordable products if the market is there. Unfortunately solar panels are not one of those items that can be made cheaper in the US compared to off shore. On top of that you can compare the installation price of solar here in the US as to other countries and it seems to be cheaper in other countries regardless of where the panels come from so I feel it comes down the the labor cost and the cost of doing business here in the US.

[GoingElectric]

I feel the bigger part of the problem is that US workers are demanding higher wages which drives up the cost of solar. And if they can't sell their product they close up their plant or go over seas to manufacturer the product. Much lower wages in other countries.

If that was not true then maybe companies like Tesla would be making solar products here in the US.

Cost of living in US is higher, thus wages have to be higher. The flip side Americans enjoy more services, security, opportunism, mobility, and luxuries than other countries.
The US can make competitively priced items, aircraft and automobiles are 2 examples.

It when volumes are >1 million units (especially small items) does low cost labor edge up over local.

[J.P.M.]

I feel the bigger part of the problem is that US workers are demanding higher wages which drives up the cost of solar. And if they can't sell their product they close up their plant or go over seas to manufacturer the product. Much lower wages in other countries.

If that was not true then maybe companies like Tesla would be making solar products here in the US.

Partly due to the increased quantities and speed (although not necessarily the quality or accuracy) of communication, labor (both skilled and unskilled) has become even more of a fungible quantity and, as it has always done, will go to the lowest bidder, only more so and more quickly.

[SunEagle]

A good part of the problem is the obstruction by the energy industry that blocks the efforts of Congress to enact solar programs. Most last for 1-2 years and an industry cannot operate that way. That is not the case with the billions in annual federal subsidies for the oil and gas companies and the meat and dairy industries and the corn and soy producers that go on for decades. That is the price for not having a free market and relying on vulture capitalism with no government regulation.

I feel the bigger part of the problem is that US workers are demanding higher wages which drives up the cost of solar. And if they can't sell their product they close up their plant or go over seas to manufacturer the product. Much lower wages in other countries.

If that was not true then maybe companies like Tesla would be making solar products here in the US.

[Calsun]

A good part of the problem is the obstruction by the energy industry that blocks the efforts of Congress to enact solar programs. Most last for 1-2 years and an industry cannot operate that way. That is not the case with the billions in annual federal subsidies for the oil and gas companies and the meat and dairy industries and the corn and soy producers that go on for decades. That is the price for not having a free market and relying on vulture capitalism with no government regulation.

[J.P.M.]

5. and why are we doing a list?

Not a list, Just trying to keep things organized in my own mind.

The last word is yours.

[GoingElectric]

1.) It's only bad to the extent it's good. How good it is depends on the effectiveness of the cleanup.
I was all over that site when it was a steel mill. If you saw and know what I saw and learned about it, you might have doubts too.

2.) That's whataboutism - a race to the moral and ethical bottom and B.S. nonlogic.

3.) Overall, he's a grownup acting like a child. He is, IMO, a conman.

4.) To say Musk's solar roofs have issues is a gross understatement. They'd be no more than a marketing curiosity if Musk's marks had a modicum of solar savvy.

1. You are saying clean up was ineffective.

2. I am comparing the promise of Foxconn only employed about 1/10 the people initially promised, while the Silevo / SolarCity / Tesla deal is pretty close to planned employment. The only downside is much less solar panels then envisioned.
In the long run it is employment that counts, and the Superchargers would be more "high tech" than solar panels.

3. Like I said he gets on my nerves too, but he created SpaceX, Tesla, and Boring Inc., “The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.”
― Oscar Wilde,

4. Its not Musk fault, its people valuing looks over performance (and have more money than commonsense ).

5. and why are we doing a list?