Tesla New York Factory, pretty telling article

[peakbagger]

I guess the whole Solar Room thing has gone south. Tesla's solar factory in Buffalo fizzles - Investigative Post : Investigative Post

[J.P.M.]

That whole Buffalo Tesla plant was a Musk scam from the beginning. NY state took a bath on it and are still paying.
I know a couple of folks who were high in the local construction outfit that was the prime contractor for the build. Lots of horror stories.

[Ampster]

That whole Buffalo Tesla plant was a Musk scam from the beginning. NY state took a bath on it and are still paying.
I know a couple of folks who were high in the local construction outfit that was the prime contractor for the build. Lots of horror stories.

That Buffalo plant started with Solar City and Musk's cousins, although I think Musk was Chairman of the Board of Solar City at the time. I have always viewed the subsequent Solar City acquisition by Tesla as a huge conflict of interest. To me it was a bail out of Solar City which was on the verge of not meeting the agreements with the State and therefore going to get fines or rollbacks of incentives.

On the other hand, Musk has returned space launches to the USA from Russia which has been a big success. It is notable that the SpaceX COO Gwyn Shotwell probably deserves much of the credit for that. I have an investment property in Southern California and in the past ten years have had numerous Tesla and SpaceX employees as tenants, so I have been a beneficiary of some of those businesses successes. . The Tesla's I own have been great values. I have over put over 160,000 miles on them and they have cost me about $0.10 per mile to operate. Glad I did not invest in the stock. As Chief Twit, Musk now appears to be going off the deep end.

[DanS26]

Let me get this straight......Musk takes desk jobs moving pictures around from Silicon Valley to Buffalo to satisfy job making requirements from a NY government handout.....and now everyone is upset about it. Apparently these desk jobs are not as good as standing all day working with who knows what chemicals and stuff.

Here in the Midwest, state governments are in a fierce battle with each other to give/throw away as much money as possible on the promise of job creation. The biggest boondoggle to come is the Intel plant outside Columbus OH.....we shall see.

[J.P.M.]

[QUOTE=DanS26;n437246]Let me get this straight......Musk takes desk jobs moving pictures around from Silicon Valley to Buffalo to satisfy job making requirements from a NY government handout.....and now everyone is upset about it. Apparently these desk jobs are not as good as standing all day working with who knows what chemicals and stuff.

Here in the Midwest, state governments are in a fierce battle with each other to give/throw away as much money as possible on the promise of job creation. The biggest boondoggle to come is the Intel plant outside Columbus OH.....we shall see.[/QUOTE

That's not confined to the midwest.
To maybe aid you in getting the Bufffalo boondoggle straight(er) Dan, jobs have not been created at the south Buffalo plant in anything near the quantities promised and may never be. According to several of my winter visitors from western NY, it's a local joke. everyone knows the state and the local community bought a bill of goods from Musk.
The factory is mostly a ghost town and has been since startup (if it can be called a startup).
Also, but not related to the Musk scam, the factory is built on the site of a former steel plant and the smart money I know personally knows, or at least claims, the EPA site remediation (which requirements were pretty extensive) was pretty much a rubber stamp, rushed through sham. Having been in that plant several times, I've no problem believing that. Maybe still another facet to the mess.

[GoingElectric]

That Buffalo plant started with Solar City and Musk's cousins, although I think Musk was Chairman of the Board of Solar City at the time. I have always viewed the subsequent Solar City acquisition by Tesla as a huge conflict of interest. To me it was a bail out of Solar City which was on the verge of not meeting the agreements with the State and therefore going to get fines or rollbacks of incentives.

On the other hand, Musk has returned space launches to the USA from Russia which has been a big success. It is notable that the SpaceX COO Gwyn Shotwell probably deserves much of the credit for that. I have an investment property in Southern California and in the past ten years have had numerous Tesla and SpaceX employees as tenants, so I have been a beneficiary of some of those businesses successes. . The Tesla's I own have been great values. I have over put over 160,000 miles on them and they have cost me about $0.10 per mile to operate. Glad I did not invest in the stock. As Chief Twit, Musk now appears to be going off the deep end.

J.P.M.
DanS26

Does not look to be true.
The Buffalo plant was founded 2 companies.
"South Buffalo factory, two companies — Silevo and Soraa — would share the space and kickstart a new clean energy sector. Silevo was to manufacture high-efficiency solar cells and Soraa was to produce LED lights."

https://buffalonews.com/business/local/silevo-s-promise-of-efficiency-lured-key-player-solarcity-into-acquisition/article_af094679-4407-52a4-acc5-3d7b847c7ec7.html

FREMONT, Calif. – When solar energy systems installer SolarCity decided to start making its own solar panels, company executives looked at about 20 different manufacturers.

They decided to buy Silevo – one of the two companies at the heart of the state’s RiverBend clean energy and technology hub.

They did it because they were drawn to the company’s technology, which they believe can produce some of the most efficient solar panels on the market today.

And they did it because New York’s efforts to lure Silevo to Buffalo meant it already had a site and plans in the works to open a factory here – allowing it to build off that work when they decided to make the plant here one of the biggest in the world.

SolarCity purchased an already established company that was approved for the Buffalo location..

Elon took over SolarCity much later, taking on $3.4 billion in debt per records.

SolarCity had never been profitable. In 2015 alone, it lost $710 million.

The losses prompted Elon Musk, its chairman, to push for Tesla, which he also headed, to purchase SolarCity, which was managed by his cousins, Lyndon and Peter Rive. At the time of the merger, SolarCity was $3.4 billion in debt.

This is what I see:
1. people are still employed
2. Musk took a huge hit, when nearly every other company would go Chapter 11 or 13.

The negatives:
Solar a small part of business (when there is huge competition from overseas)
Employment and area growth was not as much as anticipated (so state incentives did not pay off as hoped it would)


The factory builds the Tesla Superchagers, which strongly helps Tesla sales, which increases demand for power generation, such as solar panels for homes.

So-so for Buffalo, good for America.

[GoingElectric]

Also, but not related to the Musk scam, the factory is built on the site of a former steel plant and the smart money I know personally knows, or at least claims, the EPA site remediation (which requirements were pretty extensive) was pretty much a rubber stamp, rushed through sham. Having been in that plant several times, I've no problem believing that. Maybe still another facet to the mess.

If factory location is on a super fund site, why is that bad?

And how is the incentives any different from the thousands of others local governments pass around? Is it worse than the on Scott Walker penned with Foxconn for up to $3 BILLION.
That pretty much imploded and currently is 1/10 the planned employment.

Elon gets on my nerves as well, but overall he is a net positive.

Put it another way, Solar Roof has issues, but it did bring more interest to solar roofs.

[J.P.M.]

If factory location is on a super fund site, why is that bad?

And how is the incentives any different from the thousands of others local governments pass around? Is it worse than the on Scott Walker penned with Foxconn for up to $3 BILLION.
That pretty much imploded and currently is 1/10 the planned employment.

Elon gets on my nerves as well, but overall he is a net positive.

Put it another way, Solar Roof has issues, but it did bring more interest to solar roofs.

1.) It's only bad to the extent it's good. How good it is depends on the effectiveness of the cleanup.
I was all over that site when it was a steel mill. If you saw and know what I saw and learned about it, you might have doubts too.

2.) That's whataboutism - a race to the moral and ethical bottom and B.S. nonlogic.

3.) Overall, he's a grownup acting like a child. He is, IMO, a conman.

4.) To say Musk's solar roofs have issues is a gross understatement. They'd be no more than a marketing curiosity if Musk's marks had a modicum of solar savvy.

[GoingElectric]

1.) It's only bad to the extent it's good. How good it is depends on the effectiveness of the cleanup.
I was all over that site when it was a steel mill. If you saw and know what I saw and learned about it, you might have doubts too.

2.) That's whataboutism - a race to the moral and ethical bottom and B.S. nonlogic.

3.) Overall, he's a grownup acting like a child. He is, IMO, a conman.

4.) To say Musk's solar roofs have issues is a gross understatement. They'd be no more than a marketing curiosity if Musk's marks had a modicum of solar savvy.

1. You are saying clean up was ineffective.

2. I am comparing the promise of Foxconn only employed about 1/10 the people initially promised, while the Silevo / SolarCity / Tesla deal is pretty close to planned employment. The only downside is much less solar panels then envisioned.
In the long run it is employment that counts, and the Superchargers would be more "high tech" than solar panels.

3. Like I said he gets on my nerves too, but he created SpaceX, Tesla, and Boring Inc., “The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius.”
― Oscar Wilde,

4. Its not Musk fault, its people valuing looks over performance (and have more money than commonsense ).

5. and why are we doing a list?

[J.P.M.]

5. and why are we doing a list?

Not a list, Just trying to keep things organized in my own mind.

The last word is yours.

[Calsun]

A good part of the problem is the obstruction by the energy industry that blocks the efforts of Congress to enact solar programs. Most last for 1-2 years and an industry cannot operate that way. That is not the case with the billions in annual federal subsidies for the oil and gas companies and the meat and dairy industries and the corn and soy producers that go on for decades. That is the price for not having a free market and relying on vulture capitalism with no government regulation.

[SunEagle]

A good part of the problem is the obstruction by the energy industry that blocks the efforts of Congress to enact solar programs. Most last for 1-2 years and an industry cannot operate that way. That is not the case with the billions in annual federal subsidies for the oil and gas companies and the meat and dairy industries and the corn and soy producers that go on for decades. That is the price for not having a free market and relying on vulture capitalism with no government regulation.

I feel the bigger part of the problem is that US workers are demanding higher wages which drives up the cost of solar. And if they can't sell their product they close up their plant or go over seas to manufacturer the product. Much lower wages in other countries.

If that was not true then maybe companies like Tesla would be making solar products here in the US.

[J.P.M.]

I feel the bigger part of the problem is that US workers are demanding higher wages which drives up the cost of solar. And if they can't sell their product they close up their plant or go over seas to manufacturer the product. Much lower wages in other countries.

If that was not true then maybe companies like Tesla would be making solar products here in the US.

Partly due to the increased quantities and speed (although not necessarily the quality or accuracy) of communication, labor (both skilled and unskilled) has become even more of a fungible quantity and, as it has always done, will go to the lowest bidder, only more so and more quickly.

[GoingElectric]

I feel the bigger part of the problem is that US workers are demanding higher wages which drives up the cost of solar. And if they can't sell their product they close up their plant or go over seas to manufacturer the product. Much lower wages in other countries.

If that was not true then maybe companies like Tesla would be making solar products here in the US.

Cost of living in US is higher, thus wages have to be higher. The flip side Americans enjoy more services, security, opportunism, mobility, and luxuries than other countries.
The US can make competitively priced items, aircraft and automobiles are 2 examples.

It when volumes are >1 million units (especially small items) does low cost labor edge up over local.

[SunEagle]

Cost of living in US is higher, thus wages have to be higher. The flip side Americans enjoy more services, security, opportunism, mobility, and luxuries than other countries.
The US can make competitively priced items, aircraft and automobiles are 2 examples.

It when volumes are >1 million units (especially small items) does low cost labor edge up over local.

The US can make affordable products if the market is there. Unfortunately solar panels are not one of those items that can be made cheaper in the US compared to off shore. On top of that you can compare the installation price of solar here in the US as to other countries and it seems to be cheaper in other countries regardless of where the panels come from so I feel it comes down the the labor cost and the cost of doing business here in the US.