Charging an Electric Car

[solardreamer]

I did not base reliability on MOVING parts, but rather the electronics.
They have quite literally billions of transistors, with plenty of backup
wiring.

Why would moving/mechanical parts be excluded from system reliability assessment?

[bcroe]

Why would moving/mechanical parts be excluded from system reliability assessment?

I do not mean to exclude them, just point out that they are tiny
part of the device count in cars containing complex electronics.

I am not prepared to break out an analysis of probability for
different components on different designs, failing because of
wear out, hostile environment, or age. We have improved on
some (though the car MFRs are hardly motivated to delay your
next purchse), but added new complexity problems.

I see most pure mechanical stuff as just a matter of routine
maintenance, not so much sudden failures. Not so for
electronics. My cars carry spares for critical electronic parts.
I am sure, there is no silver bullet cure all, time will tell how it
plays out. Bruce Roe

[solardreamer]

I do not mean to exclude them, just point out that they are tiny
part of the device count in cars containing complex electronics.

I am not prepared to break out an analysis of probability for
different components on different designs, failing because of
wear out, hostile environment, or age. We have improved on
some (though the car MFRs are hardly motivated to delay your
next purchse), but added new complexity problems.

I see most pure mechanical stuff as just a matter of routine
maintenance, not so much sudden failures. Not so for
electronics. My cars carry spares for critical electronic parts.
I am sure, there is no silver bullet cure all, time will tell how it
plays out. Bruce Roe

It seem you are implicitly assuming modern ICE cars have a lot fewer transistors than electric cars. Not sure that's valid. Modern ICE cars already have lots of transistors.

Your concerns remind me of the old criticism about fly-by-wire/drive-by-wire being less reliable. Perhaps true to some extent but the overall benefits have been generally proven to outweigh the drawbacks.

[bcroe]

It seem you are implicitly assuming modern ICE cars have a lot fewer transistors than electric cars. Not sure that's valid. Modern ICE cars already have lots of transistors.

Your concerns remind me of the old criticism about fly-by-wire/drive-by-wire being less reliable. Perhaps true to some extent but the overall benefits have been generally proven to outweigh the drawbacks.

Not a fair comparison, fly by wire and central communications
such as I worked on, used duplicated or even triplicated electronics.
Errors were detected and automatic cut over to good units made.
Equipment would be reported and restored before service affected.
I have not heard of such things in the car biz.

Someone else can disect the very latest IC and EV reliability, I am
only interested in the mission critical parts. Thoughts here are more
a comparison to older stuff. Bruce Roe

[Ward L]

It is easy to miss many of the underlying points of the oil industry. When prices drop, the high-cost provider gets hurt the worst and they shut down, reducing supply and increasing prices. In 1970 there were about 250 refineries in the USA. Today there are about 135 refineries in the USA. Of course, the 135 refineries increased their throughput somewhat to make up for the closed refineries. But you can see how "supply" might have dropped to increase prices to the customer. I suppose my point is, as a casual customer buying gas and wondering why the price never drops, has no idea what is going on in the industry to cause prices to go up or down. The other variable that is hard to follow is inflation. I looked at one chart just now that says the price of gasoline is less today, adjusted for inflation, than it was in 1918. Who do thunk it?

[Ward L]

As far as the complexity of EVs vs ICE cars.... Lets just assume the body, wheels, suspension, radio, oops, I mean the entertainment center, chips, circuit boards, etc, are all the same except for the ICE engine and the battery/motor. What is more complicated, an ICE or a battery and electric motor? How about that transmission? My Tesla doesn't have a transmission. It has a really sexy beveled gear with a 9:1 ratio. Seems pretty obvious an ICE is more complicated than a battery and electric motor. Throw in the transmission and boom, the ICE engine transmission is much more complicated than a sexy beveled gear. I have saved about $7k in reduced fuel costs with my solar panels producing electrons for my Tesla versus buying gasoline over the 4 years I have had my Tesla.

I applaud anyone who buys a car with cash and holds onto that car for as long as possible. I think it is sad how so many buy an expensive vehicle because they can make the monthly payments. Sad because when they reach retirement age they won't have saved enough money to retire in style. I don't mean to judge anyone. It is a free country, you get to spend your money any way you want.

[J.P.M.]

It is a free country, you get to spend your money any way you want.

And also, so it would seem, to not spend it. The not spend it option seems to have been mostly brainwashed out of our culture.

[bcroe]

. And also, so it would seem, to not spend it. The not spend it option seems to have been mostly brainwashed out of our culture.

Yes. But like energy, a good way to have enough, is to avoid all the
ways money keeps leaking out of the budget. Without doubt that
was a big incentive in the final, solar PV fix for home energy here. The
77 Olds seen in front of the PV is another, running an only slightly
used car (bought for $4000) well past 300,000 miles and DIY all the
mechanical maintenance, is another. Avoid interest charges. Bruce Roe

[solardreamer]

Not a fair comparison, fly by wire and central communications
such as I worked on, used duplicated or even triplicated electronics.
Errors were detected and automatic cut over to good units made.
Equipment would be reported and restored before service affected.
I have not heard of such things in the car biz.

Someone else can disect the very latest IC and EV reliability, I am
only interested in the mission critical parts. Thoughts here are more
a comparison to older stuff. Bruce Roe

May not be a fair comparison but you just gave a great example of how adding more transistors actually improves system reliability. It's too simplistic to assume more transistors lead to lower system reliability in general.