PV and wind?

[Ampster]

......
And yes, I have spent a lot of time in the Netherlands with mills powered by Wind! Normally, the ones I was around made stone-ground flour but, some cut timber into planks.

And some of them pumped water to keep the reclaimed land dry. Don't take the "ignorant" comment personally. That poster holds the record on this site for using that word most often.

[SunEagle]

There are quite a few on the Altamont Pass in California. Some times they benefit from the venturi effect in the windward side of a hill. Obviously the prevailing wind direction has to be fairly consistent for these to be economical. Yes, these are treeless hills with only cows munching the grass.

I have seen that wind field. It is impressive but as in real estate "location, location, location" is the main factor in using that technology.

[sidpost]

And some of them pumped water to keep the reclaimed land dry. Don't take the "ignorant" comment personally. That poster holds the record on this site for using that word most often.

I didn't spend much time near the coast so, I never personally saw the windmills that pumped water back into the ocean. It was funny to see their initial batch of F-16's fly "below sea level" and report the results back to General Dynamics.

[jflorey2]

Yep.

Wind turbines work great when they are used as the manufacturer designed them to be used. But very few people do that. They get a 20 foot pole and put them in their back yard, in a clearing among 50 foot trees. They put them on a 10 foot high pole on their house. Then not only are they not very effective, but the vibrations from the turbines are transmitted through the house.

One of the buildings at the Intel campus in San Jose had a row of about 20 turbines 10 feet above the building. They looked like the sort of 100 watt turbines that they used to sell for about $600. At any given time maybe 3 of them would be turning. I talked to one of the guys there who had the opinion that wind power is BS since their turbines don't generate any noticeable power.

Home Power used to do articles on people who did successful wind turbine implementations, and many people had great success with them. But these were people with 10kW turbines on top of 120 foot towers. If people aren't willing to put that level of work into the system, they are likely to be unhappy.

[bcroe]

I concluded, about the only use for a small turbine here, would to
charge a tiny backup battery system (maybe 24VDC), just to keep
my antennas and light handheld stuff alive in an outage, in a storm
with a huge wind blowing. Things are spread out here, so there
are antenna amps, boosters, cat 5E switch, and router needing little
energy, but required for any communication beyond AM radio

I have not read just how the controls should work for efficient operation,
perhaps more complex than our simple PV MPPT? Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

Ignorant to what "woke group" or in what context? Windmills have pumped water for livestock in Oklahoma for decades if not centuries. Just because I ask for a Kleenex doesn't mean I am ignorant of 'facial tissues'.

I'll try to comment by way of a perhaps poor analogy: When I was a child, my peers and I commonly and somewhat ignorantly called facial tissues "snot rags". I'd guess If I was discussing paper technology on a forum that dealt with paper manufacturing today and I used such a term I'd like to be informed that using such a term impaired my ability to communicate because I'd be perceived as ignorant of the technology by virtue of the uninformed and anachronistic terms I use. I'd like to be informed ("called") on my ignorance so I can communicate more effectively going forward by not being perceived as (to use your word) boneheaded and take constructive criticism as a positive learning experience.

BTW, looking at your original post, if someone isn't ignorant (as it seems to me you have implied you are), they have no need to ask questions, none of which, if posed in a sincere way, are boneheaded. Just my opinion.

Note too that my comment about WECS nomenclature was offered as general information and not directed at you or anyone in particular. Also note that I added my usual/common disclaimer, about taking what you want of my stuff and scrapping the rest.

I also keep in mind that what I write is probably read by more than one person with the hope that maybe someone else will take my spoor in the spirit which it's offered - as a sharing of what I think I might know and as a small learning experience.

It's really getting old dealing with snowflake attitudes.

[Ampster]

.....

BTW, looking at your original post, if someone isn't ignorant (as it seems to me you have implied you are), they have no need to ask questions, none of which, if posed in a sincere way, are boneheaded. Just my opinion.
........

I suppose that is one way to evaluate whether someone is ignorant. On the otherhand, many knowledgeable people ask questions to frame an issue or direct the conversation in a particular direction relevant to the topic at hand. To assume someone is ignorant and calling them such, may not be the best way to improve dialogue. There are probably other words that might be used that would decrease the inevitable adverse reaction. Some adjectives are; "not informed" or " not understanding". This is offered as a constructive thought, if you choose to understand it as such, otherwise forget it and continue using what appears to be your favorite word to describe others including me.

I have often wondered why the number of posters on this site has declined from its peak. I often find posters on other forums who have left this site and been prolific posters and who have contributed knowledge to those forums. If it is the goal of the moderators to chase off people who may not be as knowledgeable as others then that is their prerogative.

[J.P.M.]

I suppose that is one way to evaluate whether someone is ignorant. On the otherhand, many knowledgeable people ask questions to frame an issue or direct the conversation in a particular direction relevant to the topic at hand. To assume someone is ignorant and calling them such, may not be the best way to improve dialogue. There are probably other words that might be used that would decrease the inevitable adverse reaction. Some adjectives are; "not informed" or " not understanding". This is offered as a constructive thought, if you choose to understand it as such, otherwise forget it and continue using what appears to be your favorite word to describe others including me.

I have often wondered why the number of posters on this site has declined from its peak. I often find posters on other forums who have left this site and been prolific posters and who have contributed knowledge to those forums. If it is the goal of the moderators to chase off people who may not be as knowledgeable as others then that is their prerogative.

You missed the point of that portion of the post entirely. I'd suggest you recheck the several definitions of ignorant. If you do, you may come to the realization that most of those meanings are not pejorative. Hell, the older I get and the more I learn, the more I realize just how ignorant I am. But that doesn't make me stupid - only that I've discovered that there's something else I don't know. I look on my ignorance - when it's discovered - as an opportunity to learn something and expand my horizons. I think of ignorance as the fuel that fires my curiosity and keeps it burning.

Similar to what I see in the snowflake, egocentric attitude, you seem to think calling out someone's ignorance to be an insult to their 5 year old outlook on life.

I suppose to the extent those folks are ignorant of the meaning of ignorant and its contextual use, they may form their own opinions and be offended when I call out their ignorance of a situation for what it is, but I can't and do not choose to be responsible for their (or your)limited understanding of the English language.

As for the decline in the number of posters you think you see (and/or the number of posts which is not the same), I'd suggest that Solar Pete might have some better opinion as the correctness of your claim as well as some thoughts as to possible reasons of any such alleged decline.

FWIW, I've noticed not so much as a decline in traffic as much as I've noticed a shift in the nature of the subject matter to more off grid subjects and electrical energy storage, and less from homeowners who are curious (and so probably ignorant) about of residential grid tied PV.

The last word on this waste of protons and a way off topic thread hijack is yours.

[sidpost]

FWIW, I often ask leading questions to focus the conversation in the direction of my question. I'm not asking out of general "ignorance" but, because I have a question or curiosity that isn't addressed in what I have read so far.

Calling someone or something ignorant is often a conversation killer. YMMV

[Ampster]

....

As for the decline in the number of posters you think you see (and/or the number of posts which is not the same), I'd suggest that Solar Pete might have some better opinion as the correctness of your claim as well as some thoughts as to possible reasons of any such alleged decline.

FWIW, I've noticed not so much as a decline in traffic as much as I've noticed a shift in the nature of the subject matter to more off grid subjects and electrical energy storage, and less from homeowners who are curious (and so probably ignorant) about of residential grid tied PV.
......

The decline in traffic is not a matter of opinion it it based on user statistics. They are at the bottom of each page. Whether that is a concern of solar pete , is up to him to figure out. I do notice Solar Estimate is using more traditional approaches which may or may not be a shift in their marketing strategy. Whatever the reason, I am appreciative of the bits of advice I get from this forum

[azdave]

Ignorant -Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.

The particular thing I wish I was ignorant and unaware of would be J.P.M. and Ampster going at each other here ad nauseam.

[SunEagle]

Ignorant -Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.

The particular thing I wish I was ignorant and unaware of would be J.P.M. and Ampster going at each other here ad nauseam.

And you wonder why there are so few Moderators. The bickering sometimes gives me heartburn because while they like to fight they also contribute to the forum.

[J.P.M.]

Ignorant -Lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular thing.

The particular thing I wish I was ignorant and unaware of would be J.P.M. and Ampster going at each other here ad nauseam.

A respectful suggestion:

Put posters whose stuff gives you agita on your ignore list.

I've done that in my head with Ampster but still read his stuff only calling him out when he writes something I believe inaccurate or unsafe or when he takes a cheap shot at me.

[sdold]

Ampster and JPM: you're normally both good contributors, but this kind of stuff isn't good for the forum. You've both made your points clearly, so please, let's end it here. More jabs will lead to a vacation.

[J.P.M.]

Ampster and JPM: you're normally both good contributors, but this kind of stuff isn't good for the forum. You've both made your points clearly, so please, let's end it here. More jabs will lead to a vacation.

If I draw a suspension for behavior I've done in response to what I believe is disrespectful, unfair or unwarranted treatment of me by others, especially when the intent of my actions is meant for the good of the forum, please know that such suspension, either now or in the future will be the last action I'm involved with on this forum.