PV and wind?

[Bigbad]

Sorry for jumping in with so many bonehead questions after just joing up. The piece of land that I have in NE Nevada has a pretty steady blast of wind, especially starting around dusk. My question is about connecting both a 48v windmill and 48V array of pv panels to the same inverter. I have looked at other websites and they say that I would need a hybrid inverter, but I don't understand their reasoning. I thought that volts were volts??

[bcroe]

I thought that volts were volts??

That simple idea is only valid when one side of the system is a massive power
source (like the grid) that does not really notice you plugged in a lamp. When
both sides are in near the same power range, it will take careful management
of the energy to make it work.

Panel voltage is not regulated, the available current could be anything from zero
to rated short ciruit current. Wind systems have their own set of requirements,
including control to make sure they do not self destruct in a storm. Bruce Roe

[sidpost]

On the windmill, you need either the grid or a big battery bank to hold the voltage steady. To direct drive an inverter from a windmill, you are going to need a specialized and expensive one.

Windmills do not provide steady voltage and consistent power like a solar array. When a gust of wind passes by and you spike to 60V or 70V or ... and then the wind drops and you make 0V or 20V or ... your direct drive inverter is apt to get burned out and fail unless it has the hardware inside to deal with the fluctuating voltage and power levels.

[chrisski]

For an active wind forum, I recommend Fieldlines.com.

When I found the windmill I wanted to do was several thousand dollars to produce 300 - 500 wh of power a night, I opted to stop right there.

I don’t know what your requirements are, but I don’t see why this won’t work, but not to the inverter and it comes down to a cost in time and money to maintain a wind system. Solar power is relatively cheap and reliable compared to Wind Power.

I recomend High Piggot’s “Wind Turbine Recipe Book”

Best thing you can do is look around your little section of Nevada and if you notice people with nice Solar setups, and 0 wind setups, I will bet many of those have already tried the wind thing with no real success.

[Bigbad]

For an active wind forum, I recommend Fieldlines.com.

When I found the windmill I wanted to do was several thousand dollars to produce 300 - 500 wh of power a night, I opted to stop right there.

I don’t know what your requirements are, but I don’t see why this won’t work, but not to the inverter and it comes down to a cost in time and money to maintain a wind system. Solar power is relatively cheap and reliable compared to Wind Power.

I recomend High Piggot’s “Wind Turbine Recipe Book”

Best thing you can do is look around your little section of Nevada and if you notice people with nice Solar setups, and 0 wind setups, I will bet many of those have already tried the wind thing with no real success.

Thank you. I have looked....not seen any fans blowing around, but when I talked to people, most of them don't know whether or not they will work, or which kind is the best to use. I may end up being a trailblazer. My hope out of all of this is to get enough juice during the non-sun times to power things that run all night, whether I am there or not, and maybe also to charge some batteries (personal device type).

[chrisski]

It’s so hard with wind to gather data. Placement is critical. For solar you can look up quite a few websites and see accurately what your output will be for planning and only have to deal with shading, but for wind no such site exists, I keep seeing measure winds for three years before construction, or at least a year, but who wants to wait that long?

Good luck and Ihope to read how this project goes.

[Bigbad]

If you want to gather wind data you can install a tower and an anemometer, but it can be expensive. Most homeowners cannot afford to collect anemometer data.

True, that. "The tower should be tall enough for the bottom edge of the turbine blades to be at least 30 feet above the tallest obstacle within 500 feet. Many small wind manufacturers recommend a minimum tower height of 65 feet (20 meters)." https://www.e3a4u.info/energy-techno...-tower-height/

Speaking anecdotally, I would say that more than 2/3's of the people that I have talked to who want to try wind power think they can put up a 15 foot pole, stick a wind turbine on it and be good to go. If you are using 20m as your standard, the tower is probably going to be more expensive than the turbine.

[solarix]

I have a number of customers that have or had windpower before turning to solar. Everyone of them has said something to the affect of "I thought it was windy here until I put up that thing..."
Now that solar has come down in price so much, there are not that many places where small scale windpower is better. Small scale wind turbines are just such reliability nightmares.

[bcroe]

A couple small scale wind projects near me have been a waste.
Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

A couple small scale wind projects near me have been a waste.
Bruce Roe

The only wind turbines I have seen that work are very big and tall located on flat land. Any tall building or tree within 200 feet will cause a major reduction in output. Even the small wind turbines don't work unless they are mounted on the back of a boat..

[sidpost]

The only wind turbines I have seen that work are very big and tall located on flat land. Any tall building or tree within 200 feet will cause a major reduction in output. Even the small wind turbines don't work unless they are mounted on the back of a boat..

They also work well against the shoreline of a larger pond or small lake. Personally, I'm a bit cautious about the maintenance and overall lifespan. The electrical windmills seem to have a high failure rate requiring too frequent repairs to be practical for most homeowners IMHO. If I lived on a boat or small island, I could see this option making a lot more sense than solar where 'real estate" is at a premium.

[J.P.M.]

The only wind turbines I have seen that work are very big and tall located on flat land. Any tall building or tree within 200 feet will cause a major reduction in output. Even the small wind turbines don't work unless they are mounted on the back of a boat..

Like nuclear power, wind power is best applied on large scales. Neither one is practical when scaled down to residential applications.

Also, for those who don't want to sound ignorant when speaking or writing about wind power, The terms commonly and more correctly used are wind power, wind turbine or wind energy conversion system (WECS). Wind mills grind grain. Take it for what it's worth or scrap it.

[sidpost]

Also, for those who don't want to sound ignorant when speaking or writing about wind power, The terms commonly and more correctly used are wind power, wind turbine or wind energy conversion system (WECS). Wind mills grind grain. Take it for what it's worth or scrap it.

Ignorant to what "woke group" or in what context? Windmills have pumped water for livestock in Oklahoma for decades if not centuries. Just because I ask for a Kleenex doesn't mean I am ignorant of 'facial tissues'.

And yes, I have spent a lot of time in the Netherlands with mills powered by Wind! Normally, the ones I was around made stone-ground flour but, some cut timber into planks.

[J.P.M.]

Ignorant to what "woke group" or in what context? Windmills have pumped water for livestock in Oklahoma for decades if not centuries. Just because I ask for a Kleenex doesn't mean I am ignorant of 'facial tissues'.

And yes, I have spent a lot of time in the Netherlands with mills powered by Wind! Normally, the ones I was around made stone-ground flour but, some cut timber into planks.

But none of those tasks generate electricity.

As to your question, refer to a dictionary definition of "ignorant", use the proper context and not in the pejorative sense.
And while you're at it, look up what a dictionary has to say about "mill".

[Ampster]

The only wind turbines I have seen that work are very big and tall located on flat land. .....

There are quite a few on the Altamont Pass in California. Some times they benefit from the venturi effect in the windward side of a hill. Obviously the prevailing wind direction has to be fairly consistent for these to be economical. Yes, these are treeless hills with only cows munching the grass.