Migrating from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 (NEM-ST) - SDG&e

[sensij]

This thread started with posts #2, 3 and 4 referencing EV-TOU and EV-TOU2, then there were a few references to DR-SES. So when I saw TOU1 and TOU2, I assumed EV-TOU. Maybe not.

In any case, that's how I got here, looking for EV-TOU2 info. It doesn't appear to be changing along with DR-SES. I've been on this plan for almost 5 years with a solar PV system for the last 4+. According to the SDGE rep I spoke to yesterday, DR tiered rates are going away entirely by 2019 and EV-TOU2 will remain as is for now. What I came here to find out is, when might EV-TOU2 change for the worse and as a less-than-5-year PTO customer, what is the best decision going forward? I'm currently betting on EV-TOU2 remaining reasonable. My hope is that if it changes like "SES2" that 30kwh residential energy storage systems will be the price of refrigerators by that time.

I don't think EV-TOU-2 is going to dodge the changes.

From the GRC Phase 2 decision by the CPUC (page 86):

ORDER
IT IS ORDERED that:
1. San Diego Gas & Electric Company must implement the specific terms of this decision as one or more Tier 1 Advice Letters no later than 45 days prior to the December 1, 2017 effective date of rates (Release 1). Release 1 implements:
the Revenue Allocation Settlement; food bank line-item discount;
<snip>
and adopted Time-of-Use periods for standard/default rate schedules for:

• All existing Medium/Large Commercial and Industrial classes other than legacy rate schedules that will be eliminated in Release 2;
• All existing rate schedules for the Residential class;

<snip>

Since EV-TOU-2 is in the residential class, I think it will be required to shift to the new hours (except as grandfathering applies).

[bstr]

Ok, I think I've figured it out. you are referring to the current peak hours as TOU1, and the later peak hours as TOU2. That isn't a conventional way to describe it, but helps explain what you've written.[/URL]

This thread started with posts #2, 3 and 4 referencing EV-TOU and EV-TOU2, then there were a few references to DR-SES. So when I saw TOU1 and TOU2, I assumed EV-TOU. Maybe not.

In any case, that's how I got here, looking for EV-TOU2 info. It doesn't appear to be changing along with DR-SES. I've been on this plan for almost 5 years with a solar PV system for the last 4+. According to the SDGE rep I spoke to yesterday, DR tiered rates are going away entirely by 2019 and EV-TOU2 will remain as is for now. What I came here to find out is, when might EV-TOU2 change for the worse and as a less-than-5-year PTO customer, what is the best decision going forward? I'm currently betting on EV-TOU2 remaining reasonable. My hope is that if it changes like "SES2" that 30kwh residential energy storage systems will be the price of refrigerators by that time.

[J.P.M.]

No, but NEM 1.0 means NEM customers have access to the same choices as non-NEM customers. And, if the tiered plan is sticking around until 2022 for NEM-ST customers, then it will probably be available to everyone in one form or another. But, that is all just conjecture at this point, I've seen nothing firm written on the expected lifecycle of tiered plans, just innuendo that suggests it still has some runway left.

In this vague world of what we all think might happen, combined w/SDG & E's (and other POCO's) lack of clarity, it just may be that tiered rates for NEM 1.0 users may stay around as an option for those NEM 1.0 users who choose to use it, but having that schedule (DR) closed to everyone else at some point as has happened for other schedules that have been, or will be retired "at some future point".

[sensij]

Agreed. Regardless, the referenced PUC doc pretty much covers most everything except the new TOU tariff which won't be finalized until December.

Ok, I think I've figured it out. you are referring to the current peak hours as TOU1, and the later peak hours as TOU2. That isn't a conventional way to describe it, but helps explain what you've written.

You might also like this thread, in which J.P.M. and I both calculated the probable impact on ROI from the change in TOU hours.

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...imes-and-rates

[sensij]

But it doesn't seem to assure that for NEM 1.0 customers. Seems weird that NEM 2.0/NEM-ST can be on tiered until 2022 but NEM 1.0 can't -- at least I couldn't find any language that said otherwise.

No, but NEM 1.0 means NEM customers have access to the same choices as non-NEM customers. And, if the tiered plan is sticking around until 2022 for NEM-ST customers, then it will probably be available to everyone in one form or another. But, that is all just conjecture at this point, I've seen nothing firm written on the expected lifecycle of tiered plans, just innuendo that suggests it still has some runway left.

[ccdengr]

That seems to assure the availability of tiered rates for at least one subset of customers through 2022.

But it doesn't seem to assure that for NEM 1.0 customers. Seems weird that NEM 2.0/NEM-ST can be on tiered until 2022 but NEM 1.0 can't -- at least I couldn't find any language that said otherwise.

[ssheppard]

Maybe. Maybe not. See item 7 under order of the same doc. on p. 121. Or maybe another example of the lack of clear definition from the POCO.

Agreed. Regardless, the referenced PUC doc pretty much covers most everything except the new TOU tariff which won't be finalized until December.

[J.P.M.]

Note however, there is a provision that says the grandfathering discussed here does not apply if the grandfather from D16-01-044 is applicable. The terms for that protection are:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDoc.../158181678.pdf



Note that the 5 year clock starts from the commencement of TOU service, not PTO.

To thread that needle, I guess a NEM 1.0 customer would have to elect NEM-ST, and then select a TOU plan.

Maybe. Maybe not. See item 7 under order of the same doc. on p. 121. Or maybe another example of the lack of clear definition from the POCO.

[sensij]

Also, with respect the tiered rates, from the same D16-01-044 decision

9. In implementing its net energy metering (NEM) successor tariff, San Diego Gas & Electric Company (SDG&E) must allow residential customers of SDG&E who complete their interconnection applications for the NEM successor tariff prior to the time the time of use rates for SDG&E residential customers being developed in Phase 2 of SDG&E's general rate case are in effect, to have the option of maintaining their tiered rates for a period of up to five years.

That seems to assure the availability of tiered rates for at least one subset of customers through 2022.

[sensij]

Note however, there is a provision that says the grandfathering discussed here does not apply if the grandfather from D16-01-044 is applicable. The terms for that protection are:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDoc.../158181678.pdf

In order to provide greater certainty for residential customers on the NEM successor tariff who complete their interconnection application for the NEM successor tariff prior to implementation of default TOU rates for residential customers, a NEM successor tariff residential customer who takes any TOU rate (including a TOU pilot rate) prior to the implementation of default residential TOU rates has the option to stay on that TOU rate for a period of five years from the date the customer commences the TOU rate.

This approach is consistent with that taken in the D.15-07-001 (See Finding of Fact 142, 143) and with the Legislature's desire, expressed in Section 745(c)(3),that the Commission seek to establish TOU rates that will not change more often than every five years.

Note that the 5 year clock starts from the commencement of TOU service, not PTO.

To thread that needle, I guess a NEM 1.0 customer would have to elect NEM-ST, and then select a TOU plan.

[J.P.M.]

Had two conversations with SDG&E's NEM group today. The reason no letter was sent to us has to do with the 5 year 'grandfathering' provisions. Because our existing system was installed in 2009, the 5 years has passed from the original PTO data (Permission To Operate). Because of that, we will be treated like anyone else as far as the move to TOU2 is concerned, currently expected between Dec, 2017 and sometime in 2019. As far as upgrading the system, it appears that no matter what we do, we'll probably be forced to TOU2 at some point in the next 2 years. Upgrading the system also doesn't appear to change the PTO, just forces you to NEM-ST. We were also told we can also change back to tiered rates at any time (as long as it's still available).

So, bottom line, after spending some time over the next week or so figuring out if TOU1 is favorable, from what I know now, we will probably upgrade, stay under 1kW, and move to TOU1. We can always add a couple of panels later on.

TOU 2 ?? maybe ?

[ssheppard]

Had two conversations with SDG&E's NEM group today. The reason no letter was sent to us has to do with the 5 year 'grandfathering' provisions. Because our existing system was installed in 2009, the 5 years has passed from the original PTO data (Permission To Operate). Because of that, we will be treated like anyone else as far as the move to TOU2 is concerned, currently expected between Dec, 2017 and sometime in 2019. As far as upgrading the system, it appears that no matter what we do, we'll probably be forced to TOU2 at some point in the next 2 years. Upgrading the system also doesn't appear to change the PTO, just forces you to NEM-ST. We were also told we can also change back to tiered rates at any time (as long as it's still available).

So, bottom line, after spending some time over the next week or so figuring out if TOU1 is favorable, from what I know now, we will probably upgrade, stay under 1kW, and move to TOU1. We can always add a couple of panels later on.

[J.P.M.]

Agreed. Nothing is official until the PUC's final ruling. In the meantime, I'll update when I hear a definitive answer for SDG&E regarding the letter and the 'deadline'.

Thank you in advance for the continued info.

[J.P.M.]

I read what is written. I understand exactly how it is described, But my bills (2 with NBC) does not match this description.Nor does it match sensj latest bill with 3 kWh subject to NBC.

I understand what you write. I'm still digging/looking for more information. Found this. Mentioned it for information purposes as it's a better descriptor than I've seen elsewhere so far, including from SDG & E. As usual, take what you want. Scrap the rest.

[CharlieEscCA]

Sensij and everyone else, including Escondido Charlie: If you haven't seen this yet, go to aurorasolar.com, go to the blog, and at the bottom of the list of blog entries click on the last blog entry, "The ultimate guide to NEM 2.0 part 1, non-bypassable charges".

If that blog entry is correct, it dissipates a lot of the fog.

I caught it. You help skin it. It's for PG & E users but I bet it's about the same for all I.O.U customers. There's a math error in the example of $1.00, but it does seem to clear things up. I'll be trying to make sense of it tomorrow and if it makes sense to me, figure out how to get it onto a spreadsheet.

I read what is written. I understand exactly how it is described, But my bills (2 with NBC) does not match this description.Nor does it match sensj latest bill with 3 kWh subject to NBC.