Honda Insight vs Toyota Prius

[truav8r]

The problem is that consumers don't look at the cost to maintain. EVs are far cheaper to maintain than ICE vehicles. The Volt has a lower 5 year total cost of ownership than the Cruze.
I've had my Volt for 4 years, and the only maintenance it has needed is 2 oil changes. Yes, 2, in 4 years. At 35k miles, I would be up to 7 with a Cruze, not to mention anything else it may need.
EV is also far cheaper than gas. I can get 40 miles for less than $1 of electricity. Even with gas at $2/gallon, you would be lucky to do half that good.

The (lack of) maintenance on the Leaf is one of the big draws for me. We replaced a VW TDI, which is a tinkerer's dream car. And I messed around with that car a lot, added and upgraded different parts here and there with Euro spec parts, etc. Learned a lot and had fun in the process. But that was when I was single. Now, it's fun to *not* mess with a car.

The 3 year maintenance schedule on the Leaf is nothing more than rotate tires once in a while. I had the TDI for 11 years (215k miles) and an Escape for 10 years (130k). Virtually every part that needed scheduled or non-scheduled repairs on those vehicles simply doesn't exist on a true EV like the Leaf - timing belt replacements, spark plugs, exhaust replacements, fuel filters, not to mention the routine items like oil changes and air filters.

I use a wifi OBD and my iPhone to check on the EV battery health. It's been exactly 1 year, and my battery is still 100% fresh as the day I bought it. I'm willing to "play the game" with the battery to maintain that health, but it's inevitable that it will start a slow degradation soon. And as EV prices keep falling, soon it won't even be necessary to keep close tabs on the battery, since there will be plenty of extra kWhs in the pack before very long.

YMMV

[PNjunction]

Here in the US, an EV is cleaner than the average ICE car in almost every state.
You can plug in your zipcode here to see exactly how much: http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/..._emissions.php

That's very interesting and definitely useful as they define what I was talking about as the "well-to-wheel" environment.

But we shouldn't let *local* improvements, such as EV use, be a get-out-of-jail-card for continuing to use and promote fossil fuel (in whatever form) power plants. Nuclear (in various forms - is where we should be headed).

Oil crisis and flexibility? Laugh. Our infrastructure is not set up, nor will it be in the near future for mass consumer EV charging. And of course, charging stations may charge($) as much as petrol eventually, once the stranglehold on a charging monopoly is complete.

[emartin00]

That's very interesting and definitely useful as they define what I was talking about as the "well-to-wheel" environment.

But we shouldn't let *local* improvements, such as EV use, be a get-out-of-jail-card for continuing to use and promote fossil fuel (in whatever form) power plants. Nuclear (in various forms - is where we should be headed).

Oil crisis and flexibility? Laugh. Our infrastructure is not set up, nor will it be in the near future for mass consumer EV charging. And of course, charging stations may charge($) as much as petrol eventually, once the stranglehold on a charging monopoly is complete.

I do like nuclear, but the general public doesn't, so unfortunately, I don't see it going anywhere. Natural gas isn't ideal, but it's still far cleaner than oil or coal.

You'd actually be surprised at how many EVs we could support. Since the majority of charging is done at home, overnight when demand is low, you could realistically add an EV to millions of homes without a problem.
And so what if commercial charging stations cost a lot. I've only ever used one once, because I simply charge up at home every night (and at work because I'm lucky to have a free station there as well.)

[SunEagle]

I do like nuclear, but the general public doesn't, so unfortunately, I don't see it going anywhere. Natural gas isn't ideal, but it's still far cleaner than oil or coal.

You'd actually be surprised at how many EVs we could support. Since the majority of charging is done at home, overnight when demand is low, you could realistically add an EV to millions of homes without a problem.
And so what if commercial charging stations cost a lot. I've only ever used one once, because I simply charge up at home every night (and at work because I'm lucky to have a free station there as well.)

You are one of the lucky few that have a condition that allows you enjoy the EV lifestyle by being able to charge at work and at home.

An EV is not for everyone and due to the distance most people commute to work, an EV will never be a product they will purchase until the initial price comes way down and "free" charging stations are built at their work site.

I am still hoping for hydrogen hybrids but again the infrastructure to refill the vehicles is a far distant thought.

[J.P.M.]

You are one of the lucky few that have a condition that allows you enjoy the EV lifestyle by being able to charge at work and at home.

An EV is not for everyone and due to the distance most people commute to work, an EV will never be a product they will purchase until the initial price comes way down and "free" charging stations are built at their work site.

I am still hoping for hydrogen hybrids but again the infrastructure to refill the vehicles is a far distant thought.

I've tried to internalize "never say never" into my thinking, but from what I learned from working with H2 systems, I bet there's a lot of public ignorance of the challenges to be dealt with in the large scale generation, transport, storage and use of H2 for use as a fuel or energy source.

Not saying it won't happen. It's a great energy source (e.g., the sun), with many advantages. Just that, in many ways, it's a different animal than, say CH4 and way different than the mostly technically ignorant tree hugging, R.E. shills and leeches would have us believe for their perhaps no so noble and parochial reasons.

[SunEagle]

I've tried to internalize "never say never" into my thinking, but from what I learned from working with H2 systems, I bet there's a lot of public ignorance of the challenges to be dealt with in the large scale generation, transport, storage and use of H2 for use as a fuel or energy source.

Not saying it won't happen. It's a great energy source (e.g., the sun), with many advantages. Just that, in many ways, it's a different animal than, say CH4 and way different than the mostly technically ignorant tree hugging, R.E. shills and leeches would have us believe for their perhaps no so noble and parochial reasons.

There is also the fear level of a possible explosion that people will need to get over.