renewable energy neighborhood

[conger14]

I posted this question over on the pickens plan website and got a response to post it here for more info and thoughts, so please reply with comments.

My wife and I live in a neighborhood in Saranac Lake, NY (northern NY) at about 1650 feet above sea level. For 6-8 months of the year we have cold conditions. In our neighborhood is 36 home sites with only five houses built. The remaining lots are now for sale together. We want to buy them and create a neighborhood that is powered by solar and heated by geothermal heating. Our idea is this:
Of the remaining 36 acres, 9 are designated for nature trails while the rest would be individual home sites. Our idea is to take those 9 and cut out 7 acres for oscilating solar panels that track the sun all day long. From there power will be run to the neighborhood and tied into our local grid. Any surplus, you know the deal, any shortage, same thing. The wood from the acres would be milled and used in the construction of new homes and help keep costs low. New homes would be installed with geothermal units to provide heating and cooling and eliminating any need for oil/electric use.

I asked a local builder about this and he said that solar doesnt work here, or better yet, its not cost effective and that geothermal doesn't work. I get the solar part maybe, but geothermal I do not get. I'm going to contact another builder more south (builders here are limited in thier knowledge for various reasons) to get their professional opinion but I wanted to check here about other thoughts?

I appreciate any feedback.
Stephen

[conger14]

I forgot to mention. The reason the panels would not go on the houses is that we live on the back side of a mountain and with appearance etc, I think more people would like the panels off site in a sense. Also, we were thinking that would could still have a nature trail around the 9 acres, and in the middle where the panels are would be fencing to prevent anyone from going in (maybe electrified by the solar panels themselves? That would be funny for some kid trying to have fun!) and with tree landscaping to hide the panels from the trails...

[Cal_State78]

Hi Stephen,

It sounds like you have a good plan laid out, however I don't know how economical it would be in new york.

from what I understand, geothermal is mainly used within the vicinity of the earth's tectonic plates. new york isn't really close to any. I don't know enough about geothermal to give you a straight answer, but maybe this is why the builder told you it doesn't work there?

as far as solar panels, if you are wanting to have enough panels to power all of the homes, it would take a lot! your talkin' hundreds of thousands of dollars. i looked at a solar isolation map and it looks like northern new york gets about 2-3 hours of GOOD sunlight a day during those long winter months, so your not getting near as much out of those panels as you could in other places.

if you are looking to invest the type of money your talking about, you should look into building a neighborhood in California. it would take half the amount of solar panels it would there in new york, plus California is right on a tectonic plate line, so geothermal would be perfect. not only that, but we have some of the best incentives in the country.

[Jason]

Hi Stephen, I'm happy you got my message and registered! Welcome to Solar Panel Talk!

[conger14]

Thanks Cal_State78. That makes sense. Although I would welcome a move to California, I think we will be staying here for awhile...

I didn't get the impression that geothermal had anything to do with tectonic plates, I thought it was more about the earth's internal temp below ground that remains relatively constant wherever you are. I know here digging deeper might make it more costly because of our cold temps but I thought it could still be useable?

Where did you find the info about solar isolation maps?

Stephen

[n3qik]

Solar:
To make solar work you would need 200KW+ in panels. A system of that size will not get any rebates from fed and maybe nothing from state, plus now you will be listed as a generator site. This gets the state PUC and EPA and .......more red tape and oversite.

Geothermal:
Yes geothermal will work. To get it to work in winter, you may need to drill a few more bore holes to get the required BTU's.

[Off Grid Solar]

Stephen, I am going to help you with your problem. First go to Buffalo NY. pick up a phone book and find a solar company there. Tell them you know Jim McKirdy and they will help you. Buffalo is a green zone. Shallow Geothermal will give you 68 to 70 degrees all year around. This will eliminate high heating cost in the winter. Put a solar hot water heater on your roof and install a solar system from the company in Buffalo. Forget about feeding the grid. Durring snow storms you will loose electric power to your home. Durring that time if you are selling electric power to the grid you will have to shut down as not to hurt the line men working on the power lines. Independence of the grid is the best solution. Why sell power to a product that has not changed for over 100 years? This is the major problem with the grid. It can not meet the demands of power for today. Keep the trees they eat carbon. Stephen, now your home is worth more and you have reduced your carbon footprint. I am 62 years old. I have paid over $600 K for electric power over the last 40 years. Don't do the same. Keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer and you will never get another electric bill for as long as you live in your home. This is the best help I am offer. Jim