Operating a 220v well pump during power outages

[Clyde]

Whoa ! 15 minutes per hour ? You either have a leak somewhere, or have 15 kids and a huge garden.

What is the HP of the pump ? Sadly, the starting amps (LRA) is about 10x the running amps, and an inverter has to be sized to handle the starting surge.
My 1/2 hp pump pulls 1,000 watts off my inverter, and takes roughly 9Kw to start. My beefy inverter and battery bank has no trouble with it, and total running time per day is 3 hours on average. That includes drip irrigation for about 300 fruit and nut trees, 2 households, and the kitchen garden, around 2,000 gallons per day.

We also have 2 houses on the well and a 7 station irrigation system and just 2 fruit trees so I suppose my figures were wrong. I have never actually heard our pump run more than 2 or 3 minutes at a time unless the largest section of irrigation is running and it seems it runs the entire 15 minutes when that section is on in the morning and evening. No garden this summer but we will be putting a fall garden in real soon if I can get the raised beds built in time then a spring garden. Sounds like to me a figure of 5 minutes per hour on a 24 hour basis so that would mean a total of 2 hours every 24 hours and perhaps even that is high. My pump says it pulls 1,000 watts and I think that converts to about 8.5 amps so I would be looking at needing enough charging and storage to handle 17 amp/hours plus the startup draw.

Would that be the proper figure? If so it seems to me (2) 6 volt 120 amp/hour golf cart batteries would do the trick along with an inverter that would give me the 9k to 10k to start. Of course now I am to the point where I do not know how many or how many watts my panel array would need to be.

It seems I am going to learn an awful lot here even if I decide not to go with the solar panel system. I am off to do some research but I will be looking for your reply.

Thanks for the input, information and help.

[Logan5]

not going to happen with a 12 volt inverter.

[Mike90250]

You pump may be rated at 1,000 watts, my 1/2 hp is "rated" at 380W, and pulls 1,000. Look at the pump tables I posted, at the efficiency and the power factor. Both add up in the wrong direction, the grid doesn't care, nor the breakers or fuse, but the strange beast the inverter is, makes a huge difference.

[capowood]

Anything can be done, for a price.
Gasoline Generator :$800 & Transfer switch for pump $300, $5 gasoline Gives 7 hours run time
Battery & Inverter backup: 4 golf cart batteries $500, 24V 3Kw inverter $2000, automatic transfer switch $500, 120V charger $150 Gives 3 hours run time
Make it solar, Add $5000 for panels, mounts, different inverter and charge controller.

We have a Goulds 10GS20 well pump (2hp) that runs with an Avquavar Solo 3AS20 controller. We have that along with our fridge/freezer on a backup loads panel. The spec sheet on the controller says we need a 6100 kw Generator to run the pump. What would you recommend for an inverter/battery setup that would work as well?

[Logan5]

Unless you have a forklift for annual battery replacement. replace the pump with a solar smart inverter VSP, then over size the battery system for your convenience loads, maybe another inverter,operated only when in use. If you plan to run refrigeration, buy new appliances that do not require an inverter and locate as close to battery bank as possible. Chest type refrigerator and freezer is 2 to 5 X more efficient than upright. It does not make logical sense to try to match a battery inverter system to a deep well pump when you would be better served by replacing the pump.

[Clyde]

Unless you have a forklift for annual battery replacement. replace the pump with a solar smart inverter VSP, then over size the battery system for your convenience loads, maybe another inverter,operated only when in use. If you plan to run refrigeration, buy new appliances that do not require an inverter and locate as close to battery bank as possible. Chest type refrigerator and freezer is 2 to 5 X more efficient than upright. It does not make logical sense to try to match a battery inverter system to a deep well pump when you would be better served by replacing the pump.

As far as I know the batteries only need to be replaced every 5 to 7 years not annual. Yes it may be a better idea to change out the pump but I am looking for a pump solution that will allow me to add to the system until I am completely solar powered.

[Logan5]

then your solution will likely cost 25 to 30 thousand dollars in the end and if you have any money left you will still end up buying the smart VSP anyway. Hell your not even out of the 12 volt toy box and you want to start a deep well pump. 5 to 7 year life span batteries are lite cycled batteries, batteries that float 99% of the time and on occasion catch and power fail, and get cycled to 25%, your talking about heavy cycles and deeper when the sun fails to shine and you chose to wing it rather than start the genny. I have destroyed a few batteries in my day, just trying to save you from yourself.

[Clyde]

Mike90250,
I just got the below quote from a company that will give me a 90 money back guarantee that my pump will run from this system just like it was still connected to the grid. The entire cost of the system is just under $5k so can you please tell me why there is such a difference in the estimates several of you have given me and what this company quoted me? Here is the setup:

6000 Watt Inverter Charger 24 volt Split Phase 120/240v
Inverter Cable Big 2/0 AWG 6 Foot Pair With 3/8" Lugs
4 - 250 Watt Polycrystalline Solar Panels
2 - Solar Panel Mounting Rack - 7 Foot kits
50 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller
50 Foot 10 AWG Solar Panel Extension Cable with MC4 Connectors
8 - Trojan L16EAC 6Volt 370AH Deep Cycle Batteries
Battery Cable Big 2/0 AWG - 1 Foot - Black (Pre-made) w/ heat shrink and lug ends

Of course this is with me paying freight to ship everything or driving a 1500 mile round trip to pick it up myself and doing my own install.

[Mike90250]

Mike90250,
I just got the below quote from a company that will give me a 90 money back guarantee that my pump will run from this system just like it was still connected to the grid. The entire cost of the system is just under $5k so can you please tell me why there is such a difference in the estimates several of you have given me and what this company quoted me? Here is the setup:

6000 Watt Inverter Charger 24 volt Split Phase 120/240v
Inverter Cable Big 2/0 AWG 6 Foot Pair With 3/8" Lugs
4 - 250 Watt Polycrystalline Solar Panels
2 - Solar Panel Mounting Rack - 7 Foot kits
50 Amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller
50 Foot 10 AWG Solar Panel Extension Cable with MC4 Connectors
8 - Trojan L16EAC 6Volt 370AH Deep Cycle Batteries
Battery Cable Big 2/0 AWG - 1 Foot - Black (Pre-made) w/ heat shrink and lug ends

Of course this is with me paying freight to ship everything or driving a 1500 mile round trip to pick it up myself and doing my own install.

1 comment, 1 question

Comment - this should be a 48V system, not 24V. Exact same battery pack and KWh storage
Question - brand names ? Schneider, Midnight, Morningstar, Outback, Radian are all good major brands of inverter & charge controller gear
no-name clones will last 95 days.
Missing : Breaker boxes (DC PV line, and DC battery lines), breakers, 7 battery interconnect cables (2/O AWG), Controller interconnect cables
Does the PV panel rack fit where you expect to put it ? roof mount, ground mount, pole mount ?

[SunEagle]

I agree that the equipment may be questionable. Who makes a 50Amp MPPT charge controller? Most of the name brand are 30, 60 and 80Amp.

Also the battery system would be 2 sets wired in parallel of 4 of those 370Ah L16EAC 6V batteries wired in series, which is not a good way to wire it.

[Clyde]

1 comment, 1 question

Comment - this should be a 48V system, not 24V. Exact same battery pack and KWh storage
Question - brand names ? Schneider, Midnight, Morningstar, Outback, Radian are all good major brands of inverter & charge controller gear
no-name clones will last 95 days.
Missing : Breaker boxes (DC PV line, and DC battery lines), breakers, 7 battery interconnect cables (2/O AWG), Controller interconnect cables
Does the PV panel rack fit where you expect to put it ? roof mount, ground mount, pole mount ?

So you are saying the batteries should be configured in a single 48V bank instead of 2 separate 24V banks right?
I will ask for the brand names as I am not versed in what is good and what is trash.
I missed putting the 8 in front of the 2/0 AWG cables so it looked like ithey only included 1 single cable.
I will also ask about the breaker boxes, breakers, and controller interconnect cables.
As far as the rack goes I have not yet built the building all this will be housed in but I may build a ground rack since the ground in that area gets as much or possibly even more sunlight,

Ok, so there is a lot more to this solar energy thing than I expected but I am concerned what we would do if we had a long term or semi-permanent loss of power from FPL.

Thanks for all the information and not getting tired of my question and learning curve.