Neighbor's solar horror story

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. They really help. As noted, he is in his 70's and has LOTS of other problems besides the solar one. It's just that the solar is probably all I'm going to be able to help him with. For example; his wife has Alzheimers and had to be put in a home this year. He's having to worry which will go first; his money or his wife. It costs a lot to keep her in a home that can give her care. If his money runs out first, he has to sell his house. Hoping that now he ISN'T paying $500-$600 a month to the electric company, he might be able to hang in there longer. He's had 3 surgeries himself in the past year; hernia and two knee surgeries. His kids are near worthless; without jobs, several grandkids, one son just got out of prison.
He's really a nice man and I help where I can; leaf blowing his walkways and driveway, Heavy lifting, etc... He worked hard all his life, told me before he finally retired in order to take care of his ill wife that 14 people counted on him for his paycheck. (Side note; my own kids would never get away with that. I'm not a nice man like my neighbor....) Now that he's old, retired and without a bucket of money coming in regular, the kids and grandkids are nowhere to be found except for the one who was in prison. He helps his dad, but lost his driver license (I guess it was a drunk driving issue, don't know why he was in prison.)

I guess the MAIN lesson here is this;
Do NOT get into solar unless you either have SOME clue what electricity even is. He didn't. He got solar mainly because he felt it's the ecologically responsible thing to do and would help reduce carbon footprint. (And all the rest of that liberal, feel-good crap the bunny huggers try to feed us)
Do NOT trust contractors. If you don't know the technicals, find someone you can trust to do that part for you who can tell you if your contractor is doing his job right. At the risk of insulting contractors, (of which I'm of the mind that they are a lot like lawyers, most contractors feel a project cost is THEIR money and they have to figure out how to get you to go away for a cheap as they can, and keep as much of THEIR money as they can in the process.)
Learn to read your electric bill. Neighbor didn't know how. He learned when I showed him my Rainforest Eagle unit and how I could track power use. He later told me he got a real sinking dread feeling after seeing that on my computer with my meter and use. He KNEW right then that something major was wrong with his billing.

How his contractor failed him in so many ways is beyond me. To not inform him of the process and steps to get his system up and running legal-like, how his new billing would look, his estimated reduction in his overall power bill, etc... If his contractor wasn't already out of business, I'd help my neighbor hire an attorney to sue that asshat!

Right now, Neighbor is in process of contacting CPUC after many hours and phone calls with PG&E to document and discover what they know about his particular situation and gathering his own documentation. Contacting his congressman is a great idea! Thanks! I'll let him know today. He has a call to the local newspaper about his solar situation. I might call them too to offer up my own, neighbor perspective; how I've helped him discover he's been cheated out of the solar benefits, how neighbor is a kind, gentle man who has spent his life helping his own family, how his retirement years are now worried about loosing his house and his wife by Christmas, etc... I'm hoping that somehow, PG&E will grow a heart and and see the publicity risk AND opportunity with helping Neighbor out.

Your neighbor's lack of awareness about what he was getting into sounds similar to more than a few of my neighbors who are retired, got steam rolled by con men peddles, and while not getting screwed quite as badly, still got the brown eye shuffle in a similar way.

I've seen close to what you describe quite a few times. Usually, the scenario is easy to spot: Folks wanting to believe an unrealistic sales pitch. They are absolutely solar and energy ignorant but think they are energy geniuses because some peddler pitched them a bill of goods. They wind up with oversized systems, mongrel panels different than purchased, shaded arrays, way off south facing, broken tiles they never see, and more.

I try to make friendly suggestions before they commit if I find out in time, but usually I get dumb looks or told to mind my own business.

Old folks, and everyone else getting screwed by solar con men for that matter, are getting it the same as they do from other home improvement rip offs, Primarily for the same reason: their ignorance.

Caveat Emptor.

[sensij]

I don't really see PG&E's culpability in this. A decent analogy might be to a person that hires a contractor to put an expansion on a house, and fails to verify that the expansion is properly permitted. When the person goes to sell the house and a buyer finds the unpermitted space, it could hurt the sale value of the home, and/or be expensive to tear down the construction to an inspectable state and then rebuild it, even if it was all done to code to begin with. Is it the city's fault (or the buyer's fault) that the permitting wasn't done? The homeowner is responsible for their home.

[vudu]

Yet another reason to NOT consider a grid-tied system.

Taking advantage of older folks gets my hackles up. The installer should be tarred and feathered.

I vote for the local news angle.

I appreciate the fact you are helping your neighbor - very neighborly of you.

Good luck - give'm hell.

[J.P.M.]

Yet another reason to NOT consider a grid-tied system.

Taking advantage of older folks gets my hackles up. The installer should be tarred and feathered.

I vote for the local news angle.

I appreciate the fact you are helping your neighbor - very neighborly of you.

Good luck - give'm hell.

Makes me sad as well, More than I care to discuss.

But - A large part of the responsibility for getting ripped off and just plain screwed (I'd opine more than half FWIW), lies with buyers who do not take the time and responsibility to get the information they need to make an informed decision. Of course they get screwed - they're low hanging fruit with a self painted bulls eye on their face.

Anyone reading this forum will easily recognize the type: "I'm sick of these bills - I'm going to get even with the power co". Or, "The salesman said I can eliminate my whole bill if I buy from him and the gov. will pay for most of it ". Or, my personal favorite : "You're from the HOA. so you don't want me to have solar, and you don't know anything about it anyway". I've put articles in my community newspaper for several years now. They mention things like conservation and not oversizing, as well as roof prep and how to negotiate, but more about where to get information - not unlike my spoor on this forum. So far I've received 3 phone call in about 6 years.

The ignorance, apathy and laziness to do nothing to avoid getting ripped off seems to be getting worst and ubiquitous as the great dumbing of America continues.

[inetdog]

M
The ignorance, apathy and laziness to do nothing to avoid getting ripped off seems to be getting worst and ubiquitous as the great dumbing of America continues.

Q: Which do you think is the greatest risk for the future of our society? Ignorance or Apathy?
A: I don't know and I don't care.

[Naptown]

I try really hard to keep the customers best interests at the top of the list.
It really pisses me off when I lose out it a bottom feeding high pressure sales pitch that is geared more toward meeting their wants than the actual situation will allow.
Maybe this is why I drive a 15 year old car and not a new one.
The up side is I have no trouble with guilt from stealing from someone who has no clue.
But the rip off artists probably don't lose sleep either.
Oh well

[J.P.M.]

I try really hard to keep the customers best interests at the top of the list.
It really pisses me off when I lose out it a bottom feeding high pressure sales pitch that is geared more toward meeting their wants than the actual situation will allow.
Maybe this is why I drive a 15 year old car and not a new one.
The up side is I have no trouble with guilt from stealing from someone who has no clue.
But the rip off artists probably don't lose sleep either.
Oh well

This is really getting off topic, but I appreciate your comment and also that reputable installers and vendors drag the anchor of the leeches and slugs who are little more than opportunists.

I still maintain they are not the root cause of folks getting screwed. That honor goes to people who self inflict their ignorance on themselves by doing stupid crap without lifting a finger or a brain to see if any of it makes sense. The slothfully ignorant buyers have been and will be with us always. P.T. Barnum was right. In a way, the peddlers who are scumbags may be thought of a scavengers.

[silversaver]

Theres no need of guilt. A good business and service, is making money while having a happy customer. When your customers aren't happy and you haven't making any money, thats is bad business regardless.

OP story of neighbor story sounds unrealistic. He is old but that doesn't mean he is stupid. I haven't yet see any solar owners who isn't excite to find out when his/her netmetering start. period

[max2k]

...
I try to make friendly suggestions before they commit if I find out in time, but usually I get dumb looks or told to mind my own business.
...

You can easily take solace in knowing you helped more than a single person on this board. People who told you 'mind etc.' were simply consistent in their ignorance .

[J.P.M.]

You can easily take solace in knowing you helped more than a single person on this board. People who told you 'mind etc.' were simply consistent in their ignorance .

Thank you for the comment. Opinions vary. As for being told off, I was a peddler for 10 years. Rejection is not a stranger. I don't take it too seriously or personally.