How to use electricity generated during the daytime??

**russ** · 06-10-2010, 02:04 PM

A small residential wind turbine is a bad thing to mention in most any forum except that of a turbine supplier. They have to be high to get into good wind and one worth having is expensive. Forget the SWWP class as they create far more problems than anyone wants.

Storage is the roadblock of the solar and wind industries at present. Whoever manages a real solution can be one very rich guy!

Today - batteries

**MarineLiner** · 06-10-2010, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Quad Dad

...
i am building my own panels, ...
I could buy a small battery set-up, but the cost of that and additional required components makes this a no win situation.
How else can i store potential energy??
A small turbine was mentioned.
How does that work??

**ionized** · 06-14-2010, 05:11 PM

Freeze ice and then use the ice to cool your house when you are not producing electricity.

**russ** · 06-15-2010, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by ionized

Freeze ice and then use the ice to cool your house when you are not producing electricity.

There are companies that do this - been around for years though it is generally in the commercial area.

The volume is not small and you need a very well insulated box to place it in.

**ionized** · 06-15-2010, 01:38 PM

In a neighborhood across town where I used to work there was a building that people pointed to and said this was done inside. I never really thought of trying to do it on a home scale.

Lets see, two freezers full of "blue ice" blocks, a fan, and a place for condensate to run. That would be enough to cool at least one room

**Quad Dad** · 06-22-2010, 12:08 AM

Some good ideas guys. I like the frozen ice idea, but it seems it would take a lot of room to make it work. Heating and cooling is by far my most expensive use of energy, except maybe driving my car. Somebody on these forums ran a small refridgerator with solar power. Maybe something like that could cool the house down during the day, so it would be more comfortable during after work hours. Same could be done with heating in wintertime.

I noticed my basement is always cooler than my ground level rooms. I was wondering if i could suck some of that cooler air from my basement into the ground level rooms. My house is small, one story, about 1000 square feet. I should take some readings to see how much cooler the basement is. I could probably run a few blower type fans pretty easy. I could do it with DC motors. Comments??

**ionized** · 06-22-2010, 10:31 AM

Be careful of air quality issues on the basement idea. Is it a dry basement? Beware of mold and radon issues.

My freezer idea can be more simple. One freezer, one rack over a drain and two sets of "ice" blocks" would do it. You freeze one during the day while the other set is thawing over a drain. You would probably want some sort of heat exchanger to to capture heat from the melt if you use unenclosed ice/water. You also need to put the freezer outside the house or you will make more heat in there than you extract.

**rimpa001** · 07-12-2010, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Quad Dad

How can I use eletricity generated during light hours, when nobody is at home. i am building my own panels, so can not use energy for my actual home I guess, as pointed out by SunKing. My panels are not UL listed, and not connected to the grid.

I could buy a small battery set-up, but the cost of that and additional required components makes this a no win situation.

How else can i store potential energy?? A small turbine was mentioned. How does that work??

What if I have an electric circuit in my house that is not tied to the grid?? A separate circuit. Is this allowed?? Can i run a fan in my attic to reduce heat?? Lanscape lighting, but how do I store the energy for dark hours?? A wind turbine works after dark, when i am actually at home, needing lighting outside and in. That is probably a bad thing to mention on this forum, but I will consider any practical energy sources that have a REAL use for me.

Thanks,

Jim

It would be better if you a hire a professional to do the same..It's really a great idea and should be adopted by each of us..

**Sunking** · 07-12-2010, 06:59 PM

I have been avoiding this thread for some time because I think it is silly and fruitless. In true life real applications physics plays mean tricks on us made up of laws which you cannot violate. Otherwise you would not need gasoline for your car, you could jest get out and push it up to 60 Mph and jump in and get where you want to go.

A BTU is the unit of measure to raise or lower 1 pound of water 1 degree F. So if you had 1 pound of water at 70 degrees F it would take in theory 38 Btu’s to chill it to ice. But that is not the real world because it assumes no thermal losses and 100% efficiency conversion. That will never happen in a million years.

Real life with a refrigerator of a EER of 13 and insulation factor of R 50, you are now looking at 60 Btu’s.

So what is a BTU in electrical terms? 1 BTU = 3.412 watt hours. Again in theory to convert 1 pound of water from 70 F to 32 F would take 204 real watt hour of heat energy with an EER of 13 with an insulation of R 50.

But Physics will slap you again with a solar generator because it is at best 80% efficient with a direct grid tied system, or around 50% with a battery system. So now you are looking at 204 wh /.8 = 255 wh with grid tied, and 204 wh / .5 = 408 wh with a battery system.

What all this means with a 100 watt panel in Average Town USA, you can cool a 6-pack of 12 ounce cans in a day in the summer if you are lucky and have top notched, top of the line refrigeration equipment.

The only thing you are going to cool off is your mouth and your right hand doing 12 ounce curls at the end of a hot day.

A 1-ton window shaker air conditioner is 12,000 BTU's per hour. It can cool a small room off in 1 hour. It is much more efficient than making ice and holding it for several hours for you to get home. With an EER of 13 it will use 930 watt hours every 1 hour. To run a 1 ton window shaker in Average town USA for 1 hour per day would take a 300 watt panel for a grid tied system, and a 375 watt panel for a battery system. Care to guess how many watts the panels have to be to run it say 8 hours per day just to cool off 1 room?

**jockellis** · 08-01-2010, 08:24 PM

Sunking, Could you explain the losses in a battery system? The only thing I knew was that inverters are about 90 percent efficient and have based my daydreaming of uses for the 57 watt dc panel I'm working on with what I've got left from that figure.

**Mike90250** · 08-02-2010, 12:28 PM

20% PV loss from nameplate
2% Charge controller
10% inverter
20% batteries (flooded) or 10% sealed AGM
So you get to 50% of installed PV wattage real quick.