Boycott BP Solar.

[russ]

@Miket - I expect that many station owners would like to switch away from BP but contracts would not allow them to do so.

@BuzzBuds - More comes out all the time about how BP screwed up on the well. Their managers turned down the recommendations from their own people and others such as Haliburton when it came to saving a few million here and there. Their management definitely did many things that led to the whole mess.

@crxvfr - People are generally allowed I believe - very likely there are certain areas cordoned off - some news fools will try to make an issue for sure. The solutions from Joe Blow off the street - I have read many on different engineers forums as well as from the public - most have been impractical - very many silly - no small number have even been more dangerous.

The prez 'gonna kick some ass' was at his juvenile best with that and many of his other statements. I read them as I generally refuse to listen to heads of state chatter as the talk is almost always 99% political.

The work they are doing is not something anyone else can take over. No other oil company has any desire as it is a quagmire and no government agency has the equipment or expertise.

The only thing BP has done worse at than safety which led to the mess is PR management. That they have botched up worse than anyone could imagine! FUBAR many times over- an old 'military' expression covers it too well.

[crxvfr]

Russ, I'm not talking about hay or hair or some kind of highly technical centrifuge machinery. One guy had a cloth that would capture oil but let water pass. You just drag it behind a boat. What would be the damage of using this kind of stuff just to keep it from hitting the marshes?

The only thing BP has done worse at than safety which led to the mess is PR management. That they have botched up worse than anyone could imagine! FUBAR many times over- an old 'military' expression covers it too well.

Watch THIS 7 minute video. It starts slow but at the end you will feel like you are living in the twighlight zone. In order for things to get FUBAR, you have to do something first. Their negligence spanning years and decades should be criminal.

EDIT ADD: I would use the acronym SNAFU
Situation Normal - All Fuc*** Up

[russ]

SNAFU or FUBAR - both mean the same thing.

99% of the information on the net about the spill is just people chattering. What is and isn't being done is hard to tell unless you are on site.

People publishing things generally have an agenda and generally are quite willing to lie equally as well as BP has.

My news on the topic I get from various sources that have the background and have previously proven to be accurate.

The cloth behind the boat sounds reasonable but never having done such a thing I can't judge it.

[crxvfr]

SNAFU or FUBAR - both mean the same thing.

Except that SNAFU would indicate that that this is the normal condition. FUBAR, at least to me, suggests to me that something happened that caused it to get that way. ...but I see your point.

99% of the information on the net about the spill is just people chattering. What is and isn't being done is hard to tell unless you are on site.

People publishing things generally have an agenda and generally are quite willing to lie equally as well as BP has.

My news on the topic I get from various sources that have the background and have previously proven to be accurate.

The video is not 'people publishing things'. It's MSNBC using stock footage of a similar disaster handled EXACTLY the same way over thirty years ago. With all the money BP makes they spend all this time resorting to methods they've already proven to fail. I thought it was downright bizarre and I would encourage everybody to watch it.

[russ]

Thanks but we don't get youtube here. Blocked - every time someone puts something nasty about Ataturk on it and it gets blocked again.

Are they showing the Mexican spill of 79?

[crxvfr]

Bummer.

I just got busy at work.

If I wasn't too busy I would download it and put it on a site that you could get too.

It was in 79, called ixtoc ..have to see the vid for the true weirdness of it.

Here is another page that has it. All the others I found uses the youtube vid.

[russ]

Thanks crxvfr,

That one (Ixtoc) was in 50 meters of water - a bit different ball game. Drilling was deeper, yes but the whole thing was in shallow water.

Safety only works when you follow procedures every time. Most unsafe acts can be done repeatedly with no problem but when the one time comes along then it is bad.

In bringing new people into any technology the hardest thing to teach is safety - to get the people to believe that 'it' can happen.

BP seems to have gotten into a culture of cutting corners (I am talking about before the incident) over the years because normally it can be done and no problem - money is 'saved'.

That is an upper management problem. The workers, from engineers to janitors, can be excellent but if top management doesn't do their part there is an accident waiting to happen.

I am not mad at the workers, the gas station owners or others - Hayward, Suttle and that level of boss need to join Bernie Madoff at the very least.

[crxvfr]

Will the fallout from BP kill things hundreds of miles inland too?

Some guy on youtube says it's raining oil.

[russ]

I can't get You Tube but that is some clown trying to be cute or create more panic.

[crxvfr]

Could be, I can't see how oil could evaporate to get into the weather system.

[Mike90250]

Will the fallout from BP kill things hundreds of miles inland too?

Some guy on youtube says it's raining oil.

It's more likely the rain is washing the oil off his driveway, and that's what he's seeing. All his video shows is the street and gutters. If he had a lake or swimming pool, and that had oil, then I'd consider it.

[solite]

I totally disagree with you Gary - it only hurts the shareholders - a good portion of which are right there in the US.

This calling for boycots I really disagree with in general as it is a green mafia tactic used to punish whoever they have decided is guilty of some infringement - imagined or real. I have no sympathy for those calling for vigilante justice. If there have been decisions that are criminal then let the law hang them.

The worse case would be to convice BP that they are totally screwed and have them walk off. Then all the big mouths from Obama on down would be in a real panic. The government can NOT fix this. Another oil company coming in would take time to get up to the point where BP is now.

The courts are the right venue for justice.

İ have no problem buying from Exxon or BP.

Why put money in the hands of anyone who has invested in BP? As long as people profit from destroying our environment nothing will change. If you owned stock in an immoral company would you pull out or would you say the money is more important to you? It is well known fact that the "law" is behind them and designed to protect immoral companys. I can't believe anyone would be for buying from them, I'm amazed.

[russ]

Don't live there any more but if I did I would be forced to stop at the BP station just to counter the attackers. Second thought, we have BP here so I can still do it!

Please tell us where you shop so we can avoid that type of place as well.

Come on people - think for yourselves rather than let some fool tell you what to do! Decide what is wrong for yourself. I know it is tough but everyone should be big boys rather than parrots.

[ionized]

Will the fallout from BP kill things hundreds of miles inland too?

Some guy on youtube says it's raining oil.

My house is a mile or two from that guy's. I had a tar ball on my driveway at least a month ago. It probably came from someone's roof.

That is not to say that rain is not bringing volatile oil fractions out of the air, but this guy is not seeing that.

The parallels to the Exxon Valdez spill are getting a lot of attention here recently. It has been over 20 years since that minor spill, but the oil still oozes from the ground and fish still have not recovered. A resident of that area said of oil company personnel, that if their lips are moving, they are lying.

Large portions of the Gulf coast may never recover from either an environmental or social standpoint. We see pictures of oiled birds and turtles, but what you don't or can't see are the plants, insects, small crustaceans and other live including immature fish and other sea creatures that live in or start out in the marshes.

BP does not have enough money to fix this. Last week they were bragging that they had 2 million feet of boom deployed. Does that sound like a lot? That is about 400 miles. If the coast was a straight line, that might be a lot. The fact is, that it is a pitifully small amount. The coast is not exactly a straight line.

[russ]

The parallels to Exxon Valdez - not much due to climates/water temperature.

The gulf will recover - it did after the Mexican spill and will again. Not to say that it isn't a heck of a mess and a disaster but since it has already happened - might as well try to figure out how best to get along with it.

Has anyone reduced their driving (gas or diesel) consumption due to the spill? Probably very few but that is something that would help - reducing the overall oil requirement. Certainly more than a lot of the high pitched keening you can almost hear over the net!

A resident of that area (Alaska gulf) said of oil company personnel, that if their lips are moving, they are lying - An old saying that has been attributed to most parties over the past years - probably fits the Sierra Club, NRDC, Greenpeace and their ilk best of all.