Panasonic residential storage

[DanKegel]

Good questions. Evidently they think they can make it work. I wish them luck, and am looking forward to results from early adopters.

[SunEagle]

Dan

So Panasonic has a battery that can deliver 2kW for 4 hours.

How many cycles can it do this in it's life span and what is the installed cost?

If it can do that daily for 10 years (~3650 cycles) and costs less than $8000 it would be worth it for peak shaving if the rates > $0.27/kWh.

If it costs more and has a shorter cycle life the justification of peak shaving is harder to make.

[tehan]

Mercedes Benz CEO says EV's are a looser. Mercedes I think makes cars right? For quite some time I heard. Some of the best in the world.

What do you expect him to say? He's getting spanked by Tesla in the US premium luxury segment, so of course he's going to say it's unsustainable. But do you really believe Mercedes isn't working on it's own EV?

[donald]

Mercedes is not infallible. Witness their disastrous merger with Chrysler. Then there's the lousy quality of their CLA model. So AFAIAC, they represent one opinion that I think must be balanced against the many who are far more positive on EVs.

Daimler and Mercedes brands get more credit from Americans than they deserves. Even during periods of building the worst premium cars on the planet, the brand reputation remained strong in the U.S. Especially among the 99.9% of people who were non-owners.

Mercedes is a good company, and usually builds good cars. But they have built some real crap too.

Mercedes home batteries are about keeping Tesla out of the fatherland to the largest extent possible. Premium battery vehicles are a very good fit for western Europe in general, and Germany in particular. The future smaller Tesla will be a particularly good fit. The Model S, like the S class Mercedes (not a naming coincidence by Tesla) is a really big car for Europe.

Note the price of the small Mercedes battery will be less than the Powerwall.

[Sunking]

Mercedes is not infallible. Witness their disastrous merger with Chrysler. Then there's the lousy quality of their CLA model. So AFAIAC, they represent one opinion that I think must be balanced against the many who are far more positive on EVs.

Ian no one has made a dime yet making EV's You just want to believe someone has and read cook books.

[Ian S]

Mercedes Benz CEO says EV's are a looser. Mercedes I think makes cars right? For quite some time I heard. Some of the best in the world.

Mercedes is not infallible. Witness their disastrous merger with Chrysler. Then there's the lousy quality of their CLA model. So AFAIAC, they represent one opinion that I think must be balanced against the many who are far more positive on EVs.

[Sunking]

Who makes all Tesla batteries now and in the future?

Does Panasonic ring any bells. Tesla new plant has licensed with Panasonic to make their batteries for EV's Powerwalls and anything else Tesla coughs up. .Panasonic gets a royalty for every battery Tesla will make. Panasonic can also make the same battery cheaper and faster for Euro and Asian markets and make more coins if a market ever materializes. Tesla cannot compete in those markets. His shipping boat will sink.

Mercedes Benz CEO says EV's are a looser. Mercedes I think makes cars right? For quite some time I heard. Some of the best in the world.

[inetdog]

Users who come to this Forum looking for information about local storage in a grid tie mode are batter served by a calm discussion of any new products than by simply condemning them out of hand.
It can get a little repetitive marshaling the arguments in each new post, so a cross reference to the relevant Powerwall threads are more useful than the bare comment that it is the same fraud (or mis-engineering) as the Powerwall.

Panasonic is a major manufacturer (brander at least) of Li chemistry batteries and presumably has a good engineering department (which may have to work subject to the whims of marketing and management.)

[tehan]

deleted by moderator

We now have Tesla, Mercedes Benz and Panasonic all launching home solar lithium battery packs this year. The best of American, German and Japanese engineering. How can that be anything but great for the industry and the consumer? And it's great for you too: if you are right and they are all wrong, just think of the bragging rights!

[DanKegel]

http://www.pv-tech.org/mobile/news/australian_utilities_sign_up_to_trial_panasonics_residential_pv_storage

"The Panasonic systems have an 8kWh usable capacity at 2kW output, meaning it can push out 2kW of energy for four hours. The trial programmes will test multiple use cases for the batteries, with the main one being for peak shaving - mitigating time of use charges for electricity in the evenings when usage peaks.

Panasonic says it hopes it can “provide a reliable, efficient base load for solar-installed households” and claims that based on the company’s own modelling, the amount of solar a household system owner can ‘self-consume’ on site can be increased from 30% without storage to 60% with it.

In addition to this peak shaving aspect, the utilities will also trial using the storage systems for demand response - balancing electricity supply with demand through the grid, which can potentially have numerous advantages including reducing the need for infrastructure investment. Technical details of the trials have not yet been announced.

The battery systems are manufactured in Japan, but as regular followers of energy industry news will know, the company is Tesla’s manufacturing partner for battery packs at its Gigafactory in Nevada, which is still under construction. "