Panasonic residential storage

[SunEagle]

No matter how quickly we want to reduce our use of fossil energy, change will be slow. True. There is way too much dependance on it.

Putting a low price on carbon emissions, and then steadily raising it, will achieve the gradual transition you're arguing for -- letting everyone choose their own solution. Maybe that is true but higher costs are not necessarily a good motivator for some industries which can push off the problem onto their customers and employees .

Coal will naturally be the first to go, but as it's a rather dirty and co2-rich fuel, that's fine. If I had friends in the tobacco industry, I would still support laws to reduce smoking. So it is with fossil fuel.

See my comments in BOLD above.

Years ago I use to pick on my friends at the coal burning facilities asking them when the "scrubbers" would be installed and working so their cars wouldn't get covered in soot. They would laugh and say "soon".

While they also didn't like the idea of the pollution coming out of their plant, that job was their main source of income and it would not be easy to find a new job in electrical generating field that didn't use fossil fuel.

I agree pollution needs to be mitigated. I'm not convinced about green house gases.

[DanKegel]

I didn't say we should continue burning coal at the present rate but my fear is quickly curtailing the usage here in the US will hurt American jobs and really do nothing to stop the world wide reduction of coal usage.

We should continue to find ways to reduce the pollution caused by fossil fuel burning but not abruptly. That is like a bull in a china shop, things tend to get broken trying to get out of a tight situation. Plan it out and find ways to make it cleaner.

No matter how quickly we want to reduce our use of fossil energy, change will be slow.

Putting a low price on carbon emissions, and then steadily raising it, will achieve the gradual transition you're arguing for -- letting everyone choose their own solution.

Coal will naturally be the first to go, but as it's a rather dirty and co2-rich fuel, that's fine. If I had friends in the tobacco industry, I would still support laws to reduce smoking. So it is with fossil fuel.

[SunEagle]

.......

Net metering is NOT having a significant impact to the bottom line of utilities, yet it is a strong incentive to grow the market for renewables. The utility cartel is far from hurting. So lets not try to pretend otherwise.

I agree that we need to grow the market for renewables. We need them to expand our power generation portfolio. And I really don't give a hoot about the Utility cartel losing money.

I care about the people that work for them (I personally know a few) who's jobs may go away because of outside pressure to stop using fossil fuel. I didn't say we should continue burning coal at the present rate but my fear is quickly curtailing the usage here in the US will hurt American jobs and really do nothing to stop the world wide reduction of coal usage.

We should continue to find ways to reduce the pollution caused by fossil fuel burning but not abruptly. That is like a bull in a china shop, things tend to get broken trying to get out of a tight situation. Plan it out and find ways to make it cleaner.

Spontaneity is fine for artists but my Engineering and project management background says come up with an action plan and give yourself options before you act on it.

[kevcor620]

Except for your fear of the future why should we stop fossil fuel usage when it is still cheap and does keep people in a job?

And if we do stop what are you going to use to power our nation at night? If you think it will be batteries you are dreaming.

RE is not something that can replace existing power generation 100% so comparing it to a lightbulb displacing the candle is ludicrous.

We need to add RE to our existing power generation system because it is enlarging the portfolio which provides more options and better chances of maintaining electrical power 24/7 should the weather turn against using solar.

You make some good points. I agree that we need fossil fuels, and will continue to need them for quite some time. I never wrote that we should "stop" using fossil fuels.

However, I believe it is prudent and wise to invest in renewable energy as a compliment to fossil fuels with a (very) long term goal of lessening our dependence on foreign oil in an impactful way.

So my point that I was trying to make is please don't act all sanctimonious in preaching that the less than $50 billion in subsidies for RE (net metering, ITC, SRECs, etc) are unfair, when you are quiet as a little tit mouse when it comes to the over $500 billion a year that the fossil fuel mob gets in their own subsidies.

Net metering is NOT having a significant impact to the bottom line of utilities, yet it is a strong incentive to grow the market for renewables. The utility cartel is far from hurting. So lets not try to pretend otherwise.

[inetdog]

You are not telling me anything I don't already know.

Is Earth warming?

Slightly for the last 100 years, was warmer 2000 to up to 800 years ago when it started cooling again. Mars is heating and cooling i sin sync with earth.

Will the earth cool?

Yes as you noted a warmer earth is a greener wetter planet which will regulate itself.

Is man causing it?

No one knows, at best when scientist post their own opinions they say man might be contributing slightly, but other more powerful sources of nature are at play.

Is there any amount of money you can throw at it, or anything man can do about it? Do I give a crap.?

Nope, it is just a SCAM for power, money and world control created by the UN. Everyone seems to forget they cooked the books and got caught. It is just Green Mafia attempt at Extortion. Fortunately US Congress and Senate know it, and told NoBama to shove it. Fortunately the Traitor will be gone shortly and tied up in grid lock until then, The next POTUS has a huge mess to untangle and keep the US safe and strong. Funny I was talking to a friend of mine in the USN O6 Rear Admiral and he says the US military does not know who side Nobama is on. All they know it is not the USA. It has been 50 years since Johnson was in office when the country was so racially divided and polarized with NoBama leading the charge and rhetoric. He jokingly said if the White House is attacked the military had orders to protect John Boehner, and send Kerry in by himself to protect Barrack and Joe.

Interestingly enough, more than half of the US population believe that climate change is real. A slightly smaller percentage believe that it is man made.
But almost nobody is willing to actually try to do anything about it.

Ancient Roman saying: "A civilized society is one in which the people will plant trees that will benefit their grandchildren."

[inetdog]

It is true that temperature changes have happened in the past without the help of man made CO2 emissions.
But those temperature increases have, for the most part, been correlated with increased CO2.
The current rate of CO2 increase since the beginning of industrialization has been over 100 times the rate of increase associated with "natural" changes.

I will not take the time to go into the problems of relocating crop production as temperature and rainfall patterns make current agricultural areas unsuitable for their present crops. (The wine industry in CA is being forced to migrate north.)

[Sunking]

Dan and Sunking you have been at it for a while.


Here is my take and long term predictions:

Global warming is real and is being accelerated by human actions.

But the earth is self regulating.

When average temps reach >x% the testicles of the average male will not create viable sperm.

Population drops dramatically.

Human economic activity declines.

Earth cools.

You heard it first here..........

You are not telling me anything I don't already know.

Is Earth warming?

Slightly for the last 100 years, was warmer 2000 to up to 800 years ago when it started cooling again. Mars is heating and cooling i sin sync with earth.

Will the earth cool?

Yes as you noted a warmer earth is a greener wetter planet which will regulate itself.

Is man causing it?

No one knows, at best when scientist post their own opinions they say man might be contributing slightly, but other more powerful sources of nature are at play.

Is there any amount of money you can throw at it, or anything man can do about it? Do I give a crap.?

Nope, it is just a SCAM for power, money and world control created by the UN. Everyone seems to forget they cooked the books and got caught. It is just Green Mafia attempt at Extortion. Fortunately US Congress and Senate know it, and told NoBama to shove it. Fortunately the Traitor will be gone shortly and tied up in grid lock until then, The next POTUS has a huge mess to untangle and keep the US safe and strong. Funny I was talking to a friend of mine in the USN O6 Rear Admiral and he says the US military does not know who side Nobama is on. All they know it is not the USA. It has been 50 years since Johnson was in office when the country was so racially divided and polarized with NoBama leading the charge and rhetoric. He jokingly said if the White House is attacked the military had orders to protect John Boehner, and send Kerry in by himself to protect Barrack and Joe.

[DanS26]

Dan and Sunking you have been at it for a while.


Here is my take and long term predictions:

Global warming is real and is being accelerated by human actions.

But the earth is self regulating.

When average temps reach >x% the testicles of the average male will not create viable sperm.

Population drops dramatically.

Human economic activity declines.

Earth cools.

You heard it first here..........

[Sunking]

Dan has been upgraded to mafia. Perhaps he can reach tyrant level. There could be superpowers at "tyrant".

Me Like

[donald]

More Green Mafia BS.

Dan has been upgraded to mafia. Perhaps he can reach tyrant level. There could be superpowers at "tyrant".

[Sunking]

The same goes for politicians and certain organizations looking for more funding to spread their "truths" because they feel it is the correct thing to do.

What is the word I am looking for that fits Green Mafia? Extortion and Rackaterring comes to mind.

[Sunking]

That's a common charge by climate change denialists,

More Green Mafia BS.

[DanKegel]

+1

.

[SunEagle]

That's a common charge by climate change denialists, but IMHO it's spurious.

The fossil fuel companies are doing an excellent job of spreading fear; trillions of dollars are at stake for them. They're following in the footsteps of the tobacco industry, who managed to keep people believing smoking was harmless for decades.

I understand your feelings about how certain industries will bend the facts to meet their reasons. (I never did believe what the tobacco companies were spewing).

The same goes for politicians and certain organizations looking for more funding to spread their "truths" because they feel it is the correct thing to do.

Pick any subject and you will get multiple beliefs based on that person's feelings and experience.

I respect you and your input concerning solar and RE. So while we don't come close to agreeing with what CO2 is doing or not, I will withhold posting my feelings so as not to get into a pissing match with each other which IMO takes away from some good info being presented here.

[DanKegel]

Well I might be in the minority on what to believe on climate change but I also base it on scientific data and not publications from people that will improve their finances by spreading fear.

That's a common charge by climate change denialists, but IMHO it's spurious.

The fossil fuel companies are doing an excellent job of spreading fear; trillions of dollars are at stake for them. They're following in the footsteps of the tobacco industry, who managed to keep people believing smoking was harmless for decades.