Panasonic residential storage

[Sunking]

So Panasonic has a battery that can deliver 2kW for 4 hours.

Wonder if anyone has noticed almost the sam espec as a Powerwall. Wonder why they both have the same crappy 2 Kw peak demand? Wonder if there could be anything in common? Beats me other than Panasonic makes all Tesla batteries. What could possible be goin gon?

Me thinks nothing but vapor. But folks are gullible and like to hear themselves.

[Sunking]

Someone's head must have just exploded!

Already new it, thus my Mercedes reference a 5th grader could have picked up on.

[Sunking]

But do you really believe Mercedes isn't working on it's own EV?

Huh? B Class. The battery is the same battery the Tesla S uses licensed from Panasonic to Deutsche Accumotive GmbH & Co

So what does Tesla, Mercedes Benz, and Powerwall all have in common?

A Panasonic battery.

Doh! Darn if you had a V8 you could have figured it out.

[inetdog]

Huh? B Class. The battery is the same battery the Tesla S uses licensed from Panasonic to [COLOR=#252525][FONT=sans-serif]Deutsche Accumotive GmbH & Co

Very interesting. The same battery as the Tesla Model S but listed for only 87 miles of range? Great German engineering of the rest of the system?

[tehan]

Very interesting. The same battery as the Tesla Model S but listed for only 87 miles of range? Great German engineering of the rest of the system?

Same Panasonic cell, fewer of them.

[donald]

It's the same cells, not the same battery. Mercedes owned part ot Tesla until recently, and Tesla built some stuff for Mercedes.

[Sunking]

Very interesting. The same battery as the Tesla Model S but listed for only 87 miles of range? Great German engineering of the rest of the system?

Dave MB battery is 24 Kwh vs 60 and 85Kw of Tesla. The MB EV cost half of what a Tesla does and 1/3 the range at 90 miles.

My point is Panasonic is the technology, net Tesla. The Roadster they started with was a Lotus stripped down of its drive train, and replaced with electric drive train

[inetdog]

Same Panasonic cell, fewer of them.

OK, and maybe a different BMS and thermal system too?

[Sunking]

OK, and maybe a different BMS and thermal system too?

Possible, definitely a BMS. Thermal unknown, still vaporware.

[silversaver]

Very interesting. The same battery as the Tesla Model S but listed for only 87 miles of range? Great German engineering of the rest of the system?

Does capacity ring the bell?

Dave MB battery is 24 Kwh vs 60 and 85Kw of Tesla. The MB EV cost half of what a Tesla does and 1/3 the range at 90 miles.

My point is Panasonic is the technology, net Tesla. The Roadster they started with was a Lotus stripped down of its drive train, and replaced with electric drive train

B Class actually using a 36kWh capacity battery but only allow charge up to 28kWh. With range extended mode enable battery charges up to 33kWh for addition 15 to 17 miles on top of 87 miles advertised.

Mercedes build these EDs for CAFE rule, one ED = two AMG to save $$$$

[Sunking]

B Class actually using a 36kWh capacity battery but only allow charge up to 28kWh. With range extended mode enable battery charges up to 33kWh for addition 15 to 17 miles on top of 87 miles advertised.

Good they are not going anywhere close to the top and staying Mid Balanced. All EV's I know of do that

Mercedes build these EDs for CAFE rule, one ED = two AMG to save $$$$

I see CAFE standards as Extortion made by the US government put in place by the Traitor Jimmy Carter.

[kevcor620]

My guess is that if the U.S. utility cartel is successful in paying off the politicians to elimate or severly dillute net-metering, there will be a clamoring for battery storage from those of us who already invested in solar. Market forces will kick in, and as sudden skyrocketing demand creates the need for more supply (and competition), quality will rise, and prices will drop. Every action has a consequence. Its all a big chess game.

[J.P.M.]

My guess is that if the U.S. utility cartel is successful in paying off the politicians to elimate or severly dillute net-metering, there will be a clamoring for battery storage from those of us who already invested in solar. Market forces will kick in, and as sudden skyrocketing demand creates the need for more supply (and competition), quality will rise, and prices will drop. Every action has a consequence. Its all a big chess game.

And just business.

[DanS26]

My guess is that if the U.S. utility cartel is successful in paying off the politicians to elimate or severly dillute net-metering, there will be a clamoring for battery storage from those of us who already invested in solar. Market forces will kick in, and as sudden skyrocketing demand creates the need for more supply (and competition), quality will rise, and prices will drop. Every action has a consequence. Its all a big chess game.

Here in the midwest there are a lot of private utilities (mainly REMC's) that do not have to comply with net metering. Most use a system called net billing which means I sell my excess production during the day at wholesale but buy that power back at night at retail.

Here is my little back of the envelope calculations:

I produce at $.035 per kWh.
I sell wholesale at $.065 per kWh
I buy retail at $.135 per kWh

Now will shifting that excess power to a battery and using it at night make sense? For every kWh I shift I gain $.07. If I shift 4kWh a day as per the battery spec I save a whopping $.28 That's $102 per year savings for a battery costing at least $2000.....19.5 year payback on a device that may last 10 years.

I don't think I'll bite.

[kevcor620]

Here in the midwest there are a lot of private utilities (mainly REMC's) that do not have to comply with net metering. Most use a system called net billing which means I sell my excess production during the day at wholesale but buy that power back at night at retail.

Here is my little back of the envelope calculations:

I produce at $.035 per kWh.
I sell wholesale at $.065 per kWh
I buy retail at $.135 per kWh

Now will shifting that excess power to a battery and using it at night make sense? For every kWh I shift I gain $.07. If I shift 4kWh a day as per the battery spec I save a whopping $.28 That's $102 per year savings for a battery costing at least $2000.....19.5 year payback on a device that may last 10 years.

I don't think I'll bite.

and under that "current" scenario, it wouldn't make sense for you. But some of us on the east coast are paying north of $.20 per kWh, and others pay peak rates that are even higher. Yes, the batteries are expensive now, but what will those prices look like in the future? (Remember what a flat screen plasma TV cost ten years ago?) So.....if net metering goes away, or is substantially less than 1:1, I'm just saying there will most likely be a strong market for these batteries. So good for those companies that are far-sighted and will be prepared to meet market demands.