Panasonic residential storage

[DanKegel]

Yes it is a gamble

So, why not hedge our bets, and set up economic incentives to reduce co2 emissions? That way, if adaptation turns out to be harder than we thought, and human-caused climate change turns out to be more real than you thought, we won't be as screwed.

[Ian S]

Whole civilizations have been wiped out from it.

Not exactly reassuring.

[Ian S]

Yes it is a gamble but if the warmer climate provides more areas to farm then why not take advantage of that. Better to start new farms now and get a jump on producing food then just watching existing farmland slowly die waiting on the rain like they did in the Mid-West did back in the 30's.

I agree, do whatever we can. But I guess farmers are already doing just that.

[Sunking]

watching existing farmland slowly die waiting on the rain like they did in the Mid-West did back in the 30's.

How short memories are. It was warmer and drier climate during the Dust Bowl area. No one wants to talk about it for good reasons. All the top soil blew away. Now that same land today is some of the richest most fertile and productive farm land in the world. Mother Nature destroyed it, and fixed it. Agriculture lands have shifted and migrated around since the beginning of man. Whole civilizations have been wiped out from it.

[SunEagle]

My point was that there is more to successful farming than having the right climate and sufficient land area. The nature of the land itself e.g. the soil is critical. And if the climate changes sufficiently in the existing ideal growing areas, that may lower crop yields far more than can be offset by the northern expansion of farming.

Yes it is a gamble but if the warmer climate provides more areas to farm then why not take advantage of that. Better to start new farms now and get a jump on producing food then just watching existing farmland slowly die waiting on the rain like they did in the Mid-West did back in the 30's.

[Ian S]

Dereck, please read the quote again carefully and with full attention to the grammar.

Ha ha, I have to admit it sailed over my head at first reading too!

[Ian S]

Ian

You are talking about extremes which is typical of some fear mongers which IMO you are not.

There is a lot of land between what is being used to grow crops and what lies to the North or South depending on which hemisphere you are in.

I didn't say to MOVE the farming. I said as the temperatures rise lands that were too cold or snow covered to farm become available.

Even with the worse predictions of sea level rise most of that land is not used to grow crops. So what is lost should be easily replaced with new farmlands.

My point was that there is more to successful farming than having the right climate and sufficient land area. The nature of the land itself e.g. the soil is critical. And if the climate changes sufficiently in the existing ideal growing areas, that may lower crop yields far more than can be offset by the northern expansion of farming.

[kevcor620]

Dereck, please read the quote again carefully and with full attention to the grammar.

Rick Perry.....oh my. Bush lite. By the way, "Is our children still learning?"

[inetdog]

Amen brother. Put the right person in, and I might come back.

Dereck, please read the quote again carefully and with full attention to the grammar.

[Sunking]

100% agreed that the planet can take care of itself in the long run. I just would prefer if human civilization could stick around for awhile too.

Well Dave I know your and my beliefs, man has no input on that subject.

PS: Great Rick Perry quote: "There is nothing wrong with the country that a change in administration could not bring about."

Amen brother. Put the right person in, and I might come back.

[inetdog]

Well Dave I never said the climate has not been changing. It has been doing that since the Big Bang. The earth has been much warmer than it is now as that is where the petroleum and fossils fuels we use today. Climate has changed significantly in Man's time on earth causing migrations and civilizations to rise and fall as it is well documented. It is nothing to be afraid, and more to the point not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

It is just a grab for money, control, and power by piss ant countries and the Green Mafia. Congress and Senate have already spoken, it is a dead issue. We have much larger problems needing attention, and don't have time and money to waste on problems that man cannot fix. Mother Nature can take care of herself. Always has and always will long after Man is gone, and we will parish.

100% agreed that the planet can take care of itself in the long run. I just would prefer if human civilization could stick around for awhile too.

PS: Great Rick Perry quote: "There is nothing wrong with the country that a change in administration could not bring about."

[Sunking]

Interestingly enough, more than half of the US population believe that climate change is real. A slightly smaller percentage believe that it is man made.
But almost nobody is willing to actually try to do anything about it.

Ancient Roman saying: "A civilized society is one in which the people will plant trees that will benefit their grandchildren."

Well Dave I never said the climate has not been changing. It has been doing that since the Big Bang. The earth has been much warmer than it is now as that is where the petroleum and fossils fuels we use today. Climate has changed significantly in Man's time on earth causing migrations and civilizations to rise and fall as it is well documented. It is nothing to be afraid, and more to the point not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

It is just a grab for money, control, and power by piss ant countries and the Green Mafia. Congress and Senate have already spoken, it is a dead issue. We have much larger problems needing attention, and don't have time and money to waste on problems that man cannot fix. Mother Nature can take care of herself. Always has and always will long after Man is gone, and we will parish.

[SunEagle]

You make two critical points that generally get glossed over: the rate of change we've seen is unprecedented and second, the relocation problem. For example, if climate conditions suited to agriculture move too far north in Canada, you wind up trying to grow crops on the rocks of the Great Canadian Shield. In the southern hemisphere, you simply run out of land as you move toward the pole.

Ian

You are talking about extremes which is typical of some fear mongers which IMO you are not.

There is a lot of land between what is being used to grow crops and what lies to the North or South depending on which hemisphere you are in.

I didn't say to MOVE the farming. I said as the temperatures rise lands that were too cold or snow covered to farm become available.

Even with the worse predictions of sea level rise most of that land is not used to grow crops. So what is lost should be easily replaced with new farmlands.

[Ian S]

It is true that temperature changes have happened in the past without the help of man made CO2 emissions.
But those temperature increases have, for the most part, been correlated with increased CO2.
The current rate of CO2 increase since the beginning of industrialization has been over 100 times the rate of increase associated with "natural" changes.

I will not take the time to go into the problems of relocating crop production as temperature and rainfall patterns make current agricultural areas unsuitable for their present crops. (The wine industry in CA is being forced to migrate north.)

You make two critical points that generally get glossed over: the rate of change we've seen is unprecedented and second, the relocation problem. For example, if climate conditions suited to agriculture move too far north in Canada, you wind up trying to grow crops on the rocks of the Great Canadian Shield. In the southern hemisphere, you simply run out of land as you move toward the pole.

[Ian S]

Funny I was talking to a friend of mine in the USN O6 Rear Admiral and he says the US military does not know who side Nobama is on. All they know it is not the USA.

Your friend is a fool with a big mouth. It could get him into trouble.