Kick starters and flywheel technology

[DanKegel]

Dan you really do not get it do you?

Was my last post inaccurate?

[Sunking]

So it has something in common with the jet: both are supersonic

Dan you really do not get it do you? A battery has a power efficiency of roughly 80%. When fully charged it requires almost no power to stay charged up. Flywheel efficiency is single digits. At very best is if you spool up a Flywheel, and then immediately dump the energy efficiency is roughly 50 to 60% due to 3 energy conversions . Want to use that energy a few hours later and efficiency is single digits.

Flywheels can be used in certain applications where you need a huge amount of power in a very short period of time. I have installed a few in data centers back in the late 90's and up to 2003. They all have been replaced with conventional UPS systems. All of them failed in a few short years and one exploded when then flywheel failed and flew apart. Bu there is the catch in mission critical systems like communications and data centers power and efficiency is of no concern. Does not matter if the storage system is 5% efficient or 80% efficient. In a RE application efficiency is everything, and that seems to completely escape you and others like Ian.

Which is better for the environment?

Two train loads of nasty coal is delivered. Panels are made from one train load of coal and in 25 years you get 4 to 6 units of energy out of it. The other train load is used to build power plant burning coal and delivers 40 to 60 units of energy. Which do you choose?

Same analogy can be used with cash investment. You have two investment plans. Plan 1 is you give me $1 today, and 25 years from now I give you $6. Plan 2 is you give me $1 and 25 years later I give $40 to $60.

You chose plan 1.

[DanKegel]

the velkess flywheel is a lot less technically challenging to produce than a personal supersonic jet.

According to http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ywheel-design/ it has a diameter of 66cm and spins at 9000 when "discharged"
The linear speed at the edge is pi * 66 cm * 9000 rpm / 60 min/sec = 310 meters/sec
Presumably it spints at least twice that fast when charged.
The speed of sound is about 340 meters/sec.

So it has something in common with the jet: both are supersonic

[Ian S]

Dan you have zero experience with any power generation or storage, and your ignorant passion makes you a moron and a Sucker for anything Green.

Here is a flywheel analogy most can understand. Not so sure you can though Dan.

You get in your car and drive 100 mph on a oval track in a circle all day and wait for the wife to call you to pick up a gallon of milk at the store. When she finally calls if she calls, you turn off the engine and steer in the direction of the store and coast for 3 or 4 blocks until the vehicle comes to a rolling stop. Start the the engine and drive the rest of the way there and back home.

When you get home you brag about how much energy you saved. That would be Dan.

Well, that's 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back.

[Johann]

You guys are all such a lovable bunch... You remind me of the old sailors that walk up to me while I'm slaving away on the boat in the yard installing some new high tech feature then proceed to tell me in no uncertain terms how it'll never work.

All the sailors I got to know of, had always so much fun at the last port, but never at the current port.

Makes me wonder ....why or if it was true?

[kwilcox]

Nice empirical data. I stand corrected. Fortuantely, the velkess flywheel is a lot less technically challenging to produce than a personal supersonic jet. The reservation downpayment is 100 times lower too... Interestingly, reservation charges for the Tesla model S were about 5K. I actually reserved one of the original P85s then sold my slot for a nice profit.

lol.. in retrospect I should've bought it. The original P85 will be quite the collector's car.

[Alisobob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede_BD-10

[Alisobob]

I disagree and I've got an August lock on my house to prove it. Find me a product that pre-announced, took downpayments for orders, then didn't ever deliver. We will see about this in 2016.

Your kidding..... right? Theres hundreds of them...

Ever see the movie "Tucker" ?

[kwilcox]

"Installing" means it was available for purchase.

This stuff wont ever be....

I disagree and I've got an August lock on my house to prove it. Find me a product that pre-announced, took down-payments for orders, then didn't ever deliver. We will see about this in 2016.

When I'm in San Francisco next (end of August), I plan on stopping by the shop to take pictures/videos and get technical data. If I like what I see, I'll drop off my refundable $150 reservation fee. There's lots of logistics involved with shipping/delivering/installing a 40" cube that weighs 750 lbs and I want to get recommendations for mounting/support construction.

If any of you folks live in that area, maybe you could take a field trip yourself?

[kwilcox]

...i love the bit. Really funny if an earthquake hits and
megawatts of power self-destruct.
it's a sketchy system IMHO.

At full storage, the outer diameter of the flywheel is spinning at well over mach speeds. Safe shutdown insures that if something happens that could compromise the system, the flywheel is rendered safe and can't be brought up again with a potentially dangerous fault. I agree that 15mm shake = expensive paperweight is a bit extreme. I would hope that there would be a repair or maybe a trade-in option if this occurs.

Not something for an earthquake zone without major dampening considerations, but then again, no flywheel is.

[Alisobob]

.... installing some new high tech feature

"Installing" means it was available for purchase.

This stuff wont ever be....

[kwilcox]

You guys are all such a lovable bunch... You remind me of the old sailors that walk up to me while I'm slaving away on the boat in the yard installing some new high tech feature then proceed to tell me in no uncertain terms how it'll never work.

[Sunking]

Dan you have zero experience with any power generation or storage, and your ignorant passion makes you a moron and a Sucker for anything Green.

Here is a flywheel analogy most can understand. Not so sure you can though Dan.

You get in your car and drive 100 mph on a oval track in a circle all day and wait for the wife to call you to pick up a gallon of milk at the store. When she finally calls if she calls, you turn off the engine and steer in the direction of the store and coast for 3 or 4 blocks until the vehicle comes to a rolling stop. Start the the engine and drive the rest of the way there and back home.

When you get home you brag about how much energy you saved. That would be Dan.

[Mike90250]

tech data is on the commercial site:

Velkess L datasheet
Velkess A datasheet.....

Those are press releases. Data sheets would have plotted charts, thermal ranges, cooling requirements, Inrush,
Peak output..........
Just saying it emulates a 48V battery is nearly meaningless. SLI battery, AGM, GEL, Submarine are all48v lead acid, but behave very differently.

i love the

15mm movement triggers destructive shutdown

bit. Really funny if an earthquake hits and
megawatts of power self-destruct.
it's a sketchy system IMHO.

[SunEagle]

On this crowd funding crap: Seems to be the internet equivalent of panhandling with many analogies to the stoplight beggars. Maybe legit, but no controls or verification and probably a scam - like the e-mail from someone who claims to be from Nigeria who needs to borrow 5 large from you so he can claim a million $$ inheritance.

People/outfits claiming breakthroughs in flywheel tech are sort of the bottom feeders of the power production world.

Flywheel technology has been improved a bit over the last couple of decades and maybe Velkess found a better way but I feel (like you) that this company looking for money is hoping to get enough to maybe break even. I doubt they will be selling enough to make any kind of profit in the near future. If their systems were that good then they would be flushed with orders and not looking for investors.