Tesla Wants to Build a Battery for Your House

[Willy T]

You can buy Bongs too, but that does not mean they are legal to use for the intended purpose.

Thats your opinion and it depends what state your in.

[SunEagle]

http://www.fronius.com/cps/rde/xbcr/...1_snapshot.pdf

Amy

The "grid connection" output voltage on that system is for 3 phase 400/230v and 3 phase 380/220v. Definitely not for use in the US.

[Amy@altE]

I'm trying to write up a table comparing cost per cycle of the PowerWall, Aquion, Trojan L16RE-B, and Outback RE200 batteries.

I've got the efficiency for Tesla (92%) and Aquion (85%), does anyone know off the top of their head the L16 or Outback? Or how I'd calculate it? I know SunKing had it somewhere for some Trojans, I can't find it. There are currently so many threads going on regarding the PowerWall, I've lost track of where anything is.

http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/datasheets/L16REB_TrojanRE_Data_Sheets.pdf

http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/energycell_re/energycellre_specsheet.pdf

[Amy@altE]

Amy

The "grid connection" output voltage on that system is for 3 phase 400/230v and 3 phase 380/220v. Definitely not for use in the US.

No, that's the Euro version, as it is not available for US yet. I think I found it on an Australian forum. Or Austrian.

[Sunking]

Amy

The "grid connection" output voltage on that system is for 3 phase 400/230v and 3 phase 380/220v. Definitely not for use in the US.

And very low power for Poly Phase which defeats the purpose of 3 phase power. 9.6 Kwh usable delivered at 6 Kw. 1.5 hours. What good is that?

Smallest 3-phase power available in the USA 208/120 400 amps than can deliver 218 Kw around the clock or 5.2 Mwh in a day. It could be adapted for USA Single Phase but even 9.6Kwh per day restriction on the the battery is small potatoes. Average household uses 30 Kwh in a day.

[bberry]

Fronius hasn't announced a US version AFAIK. Whoever makes solarcity inverters (solar edge?) will make the U.S. version, I think.

The point of the home battery is not to put power out on the grid. It's to save self self-produced solar for later, or as back up.

I find it strange to question whether Tesla can make the powerwall work as spec'd. The issue is the full cost, and the value proposition.

[Sunking]

The point of the home battery is not to put power out on the grid. It's to save self self-produced solar for later, or as back up.

Exactly. And unless you live where electric rates are high makes no economic sense. Commercial or Utility 10 Mwh package is for Peak Load Shifting. You get it.

[Willy T]

One other place where it could be used is in a low reimbursement situation. Where your paying .$15 cents and being reimbursed $.04 cents. I don't know if it'd pay off, depends on location . You'd also have limited back up and thats worth something.

[Sunking]

One other place where it could be used is in a low reimbursement situation. Where your paying .$15 cents and being reimbursed $.04 cents. I don't know if it'd pay off, depends on location . You'd also have limited back up and thats worth something.

Geez are you kidding? Where did you go to school and learn math?

Two Jewish tailors are standing in front of their shops named Adam and David. Adam's biz is slow and Davids is booming. Conversation goes like this:

Adam: It cost me $400 to make a suit.

David: Yeah, same here $400

Adam: What do you ell your suits for?

David: $300

Adam: How do you stay in biz and make a profit?

David: Volume makes up for the loss.

[russ]

Fronius hasn't announced a US version AFAIK. Whoever makes solarcity inverters (solar edge?) will make the U.S. version, I think.

The point of the home battery is not to put power out on the grid. It's to save self self-produced solar for later, or as back up.

I find it strange to question whether Tesla can make the powerwall work as spec'd. The issue is the full cost, and the value proposition.

When the concept is viable you can bet the utilities will be the first in line to use it.

The Musk bull is just him trying to make good PR about his name and therefore projects. For example, whenever I read about Space X another rocket has blown up.

[Willy T]

Geez are you kidding? Where did you go to school and learn math?

Two Jewish tailors are standing in front of their shops named Adam and David. Adam's biz is slow and Davids is booming. Conversation goes like this:

Adam: It cost me $400 to make a suit.

David: Yeah, same here $400

Adam: What do you ell your suits for?

David: $300

Adam: How do you stay in biz and make a profit?

David: Volume makes up for the loss.

I'll take $.11 cents a KWH from anyone that wants to give it to me. All I need is $1.90 a day @ $7,000 to pay for my powerwall. My Solar is free, I'll charge batteries all day before I give it away for $.04 cents a KWH. I know the math, my bill has been zero for the last 4 years except for the $10 service fee. We havn't even started on the $.36 - $.41 per KWH TOU cost.

[SunEagle]

I'll take $.11 cents a KWH from anyone that wants to give it to me. All I need is $1.90 a day @ $7,000 to pay for my powerwall. My Solar is free, I'll charge batteries all day before I give it away for $.04 cents a KWH. I know the math, my bill has been zero for the last 4 years except for the $10 service fee. We havn't even started on the $.36 - $.41 per KWH TOU cost.

I still don't understand your math and motivation. It will take 10 years (minimum) at $1.90/day to get back that $7000 you spent for that battery. But you can make over $1000 in those 10 years selling your excess at $0.04/kWh without spending another dime.

[Willy T]

I still don't understand your math and motivation. It will take 10 years (minimum) at $1.90/day to get back that $7000 you spent for that battery. But you can make over $1000 in those 10 years selling your excess at $0.04/kWh without spending another dime.

The $1.90 is to break even, I am off setting $.15 Per KWH + my TOU - the $1.90. My motivation is to NOT have a electric bill, why have a grid tie in the first place ?? For most people just buying more panels makes sense, but TOU is hard to over come without storage.

[SunEagle]

The $1.90 is to break even, I am off setting $.15 Per KWH + my TOU - the $1.90. My motivation is to NOT have a electric bill, why have a grid tie in the first place ??

I agree that the grid tie is definitely worth it and will pay for itself quickly in high Tier locations.

I just don't see that battery being an economical solution even if your credit for excess power is only $0.04/kWh..

[russ]

The $1.90 is to break even, I am off setting $.15 Per KWH + my TOU - the $1.90. My motivation is to NOT have a electric bill, why have a grid tie in the first place ?? For most people just buying more panels makes sense, but TOU is hard to over come without storage.

If anyone stores energy in batteries it will be the utility. They will have the first right.

For individuals to store energy in batteries and expect to sell it back at TOU high rates only happens due to politics - it makes no business sense. It only works at all due to the small penetration of solar PV as of today.