Tesla Wants to Build a Battery for Your House

[russ]

I'm slightly suspicious that the Tesla solution might do a few things that the Trojan battery you mention does not.

Make money for Musk if nothing else.

[Samsolar]

It is not made for off-grid. It is made to buy power from the POCO and use later. What are you crowing about? There is nothing special about the battery. A Trojan Industrial battery runs circles around it.

A secondary use might be to store POCO power, but the primary use is to store your solar production during the day to use at night when your panels are not producing power. Tesla also believes that there is a market for these in places where there is no grid/POCO at all and there is unlikely to be one anytime soon if ever.

Saying something can run circles around something else is nice, but it really doesn't quantify the difference between them. Perhaps you could offer more details/data on the advantages and disadvantages of the Trojan battery *system* you mention? I'm sure you know what they are, but others like myself do not.

I'm slightly suspicious that the Tesla solution might do a few things that the Trojan battery you mention does not.

[donald]

You post this stuff and talk about open minded?

Before the utility does that they would time shift excess baseline power from night periods to meet peak requirements.

Contrary to what some feel, the utility does not exist to give you freebies.

I'm talking about home metering rates. What are you talking about? The 7kw system is not going to be installed in homes with flat rate metering. The 7kwh produces daily savings over the life of the unit for users with demand based pricing. Not complicated. Discounted present value of the costs vs. savings determines the viability of the system.

Solar only potentially amplifies the savings by not selling power back to the utility at a discount and using it in the evening.

[russ]

You see, it's about the warranty. It's alllll about the warranty.

Did anyone (who is open mined) run the numbers for peak shaving based on their electric rates? Maybe assume 2-3kwh used per day over ten years? The system probably breaks even in the $.20 -.30 range. It seems that in some markets the utility could finance the system with a positive cash flow to the owner.

You post this stuff and talk about open minded?

Before the utility does that they would time shift excess baseline power from night periods to meet peak requirements.

Contrary to what some feel, the utility does not exist to give you freebies.

[Sunking]

You see, it's about the warranty. It's alllll about the warranty.

There are a lot of batteries with 10+ years of warranty. There is nothing special about the battery and has had ZERO TESTING with ZERO track record. Warranty does not mean squat.

[donald]

It is not made for off-grid. It is made to buy power from the POCO and use later. What are you crowing about? There is nothing special about the battery. A Trojan Industrial battery runs circles around it.

You see, it's about the warranty. It's alllll about the warranty.

Did anyone (who is open mined) run the numbers for peak shaving based on their electric rates? Maybe assume 2-3kwh used per day over ten years? The system probably breaks even in the $.20 -.30 range. It seems that in some markets the utility could finance the system with a positive cash flow to the owner.

[Amy@altE]

Does anyone have a reference to the 350VDC or 450VDC numbers thrown around in this thread or are these just best guesses?

It's in their specs. http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

[Samsolar]

So please tell us exactly where to find a Charge Controller and Inverter made to work with a 450 volt battery? Please tell godsend to answer. Inverters can be found, but battery Inverters made in in that voltage range are usually measured in MW, not KW. No such thing as a 450 volt charge controller.

Does anyone have a reference to the 350VDC or 450VDC numbers thrown around in this thread or are these just best guesses?

[Sunking]

Charge controller included: "Single phase and three phase utility grid compatible." Certainly you understand that Tesla needs to integrate the charge controller. This is a system, not a battery.

Do you think Tesla just forgot this system will need an inverter? It doesn't seem to be included. But the beta systems installed to date seem to have the inverter from tesla.

It is not made for off-grid. It is made to buy power from the POCO and use later. What are you crowing about? There is nothing special about the battery. A Trojan Industrial battery runs circles around it.

[jimqpublic]

Inverter not included per the telecast.

Musk sounded a bit like a movie villain. I like him more for it.

I have a 20 year net metering agreement and very few outages (probably total of 12 hours in 23 years) so no real interest in batteries, but I could see this being good for a place with high peak prices and no net metering.

[Amy@altE]

From Tesla's press package, they partnered with SolarEdge for the inverter:

SolarEdge, a leader in the global PV inverter market, and Tesla partnered for the joint development of a PV storage and backup power solution for the worldwide residential solar market. Building on SolarEdge’s proven DC optimized inverter proven and Tesla's leading automotive-grade battery technology, the solution will require only a single SolarEdge inverter to manage both PV and storage functions. The system is designed for efficient, outdoor installation and includes remote monitoring and troubleshooting to keep operations and maintenance costs low.

From an old 2014 press release from SolarEdge:

In addition, the company will present StorEdge™, its innovative storage solution that employs optimized battery pack based on SolarEdge’s widely-deployed and field-proven power optimization technology. StorEdge™ has an increased lifespan and is a safe, highly efficient, and scalable solution. Available later this year, StorEdge™ will be able to be added to existing SolarEdge inverters.

“Around the world, SolarEdge’s module-level power optimization has become a standard technology in residential and commercial systems because of its proven financial benefits,” stated Guy Sella, CEO and Chairman of SolarEdge. “The benefits provided by power optimization will provide SolarEdge a strong foothold in the self-consumption market. We see this introduction further increasing SolarEdge’s PV market penetration.”

[Sunking]

What voltage does tesla's dc motor use?

LOL. Tesla does not use a DC motor. They use a 3-phase AC Induction Motor operating @ 32 Khz @ 400 volts using 6831 batteries. The battery is good to about 500 cycles with a 8 year warranty.

[donald]

So please tell us exactly where to find a Charge Controller and Inverter made to work with a 450 volt battery? Please tell godsend to answer. Inverters can be found, but battery Inverters made in in that voltage range are usually measured in MW, not KW. No such thing as a 450 volt charge controller.

Charge controller included: "Single phase and three phase utility grid compatible." Certainly you understand that Tesla needs to integrate the charge controller. This is a system, not a battery.

Do you think Tesla just forgot this system will need an inverter? It doesn't seem to be included. But the beta systems installed to date seem to have the inverter from tesla.

[Sunking]

So what? Ten years of off grid for $10K with no maintenance batteries would be a godsend.

So please tell us exactly where to find a Charge Controller and Inverter made to work with a 450 volt battery? Please tell godsend to answer. Inverters can be found, but battery Inverters made in in that voltage range are usually measured in MW, not KW. No such thing as a 450 volt charge controller.

[SunEagle]

These packs wont be warrantied for off grid either. But that not the point. The point is the cost of lithium based battery systems. I can order a sophisticated 30 kwh of battery system from a credible company for $10K. This is finally a fundamental change in the economics and practicality of home scale storage.

Don't forget the cost of that inverter which accepts 350 to 450 VDC which might not be cheap. You might find that they are only sold by Tesla since they make them for their cars.