Solar panels increase house prices.

[EEMLoanGuy]

A big problem with appraisers is when the bank orders the appraisal and it comes in faulty - no way the bank changes it's mind as the officer would lose his head over it.

Not sure what you mean. I'm the guy at the bank that orders the appraisal and the officer. We use AMC's (appraisal management companies) as the intermediary between the lender and the appraiser and the AMC engages the appraiser for us. If it's a unique property we make a note to the AMC to make sure the appraiser selected has the relevant experience. If there is a problem with the appraisal we challenge it. If the challenge is not successful we have two options: 1. Work with the value provided or 2. Order a new appraisal. In the case where a second appraisal is ordered, both appraisals must be presented to the underwriter accompanied by a letter of explanation from the loan officer as to why the underwriter should use the higher of the two appraisals.

[russ]

Not sure what you mean. I'm the guy at the bank that orders the appraisal and the officer. We use AMC's (appraisal management companies) as the intermediary between the lender and the appraiser and the AMC engages the appraiser for us. If it's a unique property we make a note to the AMC to make sure the appraiser selected has the relevant experience. If there is a problem with the appraisal we challenge it. If the challenge is not successful we have two options: 1. Work with the value provided or 2. Order a new appraisal. In the case where a second appraisal is ordered, both appraisals must be presented to the underwriter accompanied by a letter of explanation from the loan officer as to why the underwriter should use the higher of the two appraisals.

Come on! As soon as an officer doesn't use an appraisal the entire deal is open to question - order a second? You guys might run a loose ship but banks I worked with didn't.

They did use independent appraisers - working with a company could give you leverage to get the appraiser to change his viewpoint.

[EEMLoanGuy]

Come on! As soon as an officer doesn't use an appraisal the entire deal is open to question - order a second? You guys might run a loose ship but banks I worked with didn't.

They did use independent appraisers - working with a company could give you leverage to get the appraiser to change his viewpoint.

Loose ship? Unless you are in the industry you're out of your depth. Standard industry practice from the largest commercial banks to credit unions to brokerages is to have the borrower pay for the appraisal. We have no vested interest in the appraisal other than to rely upon it for third-party valuation of the collateral. Sometimes we will allow for the appraisal to be paid for at closing and for the most part that's a call made by the individual loan officer. In some rare cases we may provide a lender credit towards the cost of the second appraisal if the first appraiser really dropped the ball.

I'm starting to see a common theme in these forums. There's a lot of noise. Appraiser bashing, opining about how the home appraisal process works, etc. is largely irrelevant to the original posters question. Any relevant responses seem to get lost in this noise.

[inetdog]

Loose ship? Unless you are in the industry you're out of your depth. Standard industry practice from the largest commercial banks to credit unions to brokerages is to have the borrower pay for the appraisal. We have no vested interest in the appraisal other than to rely upon it for third-party valuation of the collateral. Sometimes we will allow for the appraisal to be paid for at closing and for the most part that's a call made by the individual loan officer. In some rare cases we may provide a lender credit towards the cost of the second appraisal if the first appraiser really dropped the ball.

I'm starting to see a common theme in these forums. There's a lot of noise. Appraiser bashing, opining about how the home appraisal process works, etc. is largely irrelevant to the original posters question. Any relevant responses seem to get lost in this noise.

Just human nature. We tend to trust SWAGs and opinion from someone we respect more than hard facts from someone we do not know.

[russ]

Loose ship? Unless you are in the industry you're out of your depth. Standard industry practice from the largest commercial banks to credit unions to brokerages is to have the borrower pay for the appraisal. We have no vested interest in the appraisal other than to rely upon it for third-party valuation of the collateral. Sometimes we will allow for the appraisal to be paid for at closing and for the most part that's a call made by the individual loan officer. In some rare cases we may provide a lender credit towards the cost of the second appraisal if the first appraiser really dropped the ball.

I'm starting to see a common theme in these forums. There's a lot of noise. Appraiser bashing, opining about how the home appraisal process works, etc. is largely irrelevant to the original posters question. Any relevant responses seem to get lost in this noise.

Now you do bring up a good point - who, in their right mind, trusts a banker?

You chatter like a good professional chatterer - nothing more.

Of course the borrower pays the appraisal - even when it goes against your best interest.

The last I had to do with the US bank system - in North Carolina - was 1996 - glad to be shot of it.

[billvon]

Now you do bring up a good point - who, in their right mind, trusts a banker?

All of us who have used them for decades, understand finance, and have good relationships with them. Bankers have given my wife and I the opportunity to go to college, start a business and buy a home, and those opportunities have paid themselves back many times over.

[russ]

All of us who have used them for decades, understand finance, and have good relationships with them. Bankers have given my wife and I the opportunity to go to college, start a business and buy a home, and those opportunities have paid themselves back many times over.

Use them is one thing - trust they have to earn on an individual basis. Your analogy is BS by the way.

[billvon]

Use them is one thing - trust they have to earn on an individual basis.

Agreed. Use bankers you know and trust. The ones we used came recommended.

Your analogy is BS by the way.

I didn't make an analogy.

[Mb190e]

I know this is not what somebody will necessarily pay for a property but this is from Zillow. This is my house and as you can see by the last 30 days and the chart after I had my pv install inspected 80 days ago, the value of my house started going up. Now I'm nervous of the tax bill. I will see what that brings. I was told they are not allowed to tax it for either 10 or 15 years I can't remember.

[EEMLoanGuy]

I know this is not what somebody will necessarily pay for a property but this is from Zillow. This is my house and as you can see by the last 30 days and the chart after I had my pv install inspected 80 days ago, the value of my house started going up. Now I'm nervous of the tax bill. I will see what that brings. I was told they are not allowed to tax it for either 10 or 15 years I can't remember.

Zillow uses an AVM value (automated valuation model) that basically looks for comparable home sales. These AVM's do not factor in the value of solar, they don't even know that you home has solar. It depends on where you live, but the value of solar is not added to the assessed value of your home in many taxing districts. Home values are "dynamic" and zillow or any other AVM is not a reliable indicator for the potential increases in property taxes. I could understand your concern, but if you want to put that concern to bed just contact your local tax assessors office.

[PVpower]

I think solar panels inherently do increase a homes value as they lower the operating expenses. However, there is not much good, recent, data discussing the impacts of this. I've seen a couple of reports that are ~5 years old or so trying to quantify the value of residential PV, but nothing more recently. I imagine with significant growth of PV recently that there might be some more data/studies being performed. Is anyone aware of a more recent study on this matter?

[J.P.M.]

I think solar panels inherently do increase a homes value as they lower the operating expenses. However, there is not much good, recent, data discussing the impacts of this. I've seen a couple of reports that are ~5 years old or so trying to quantify the value of residential PV, but nothing more recently. I imagine with significant growth of PV recently that there might be some more data/studies being performed. Is anyone aware of a more recent study on this matter?

A home is worth no more than someone is willing to pay. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is ugly and in general it sucks. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is great but may want the latest gadgets and toys and not your, say, 10 yr. old outdated technology. Some knowledgeable folks who are home buyers know that solar electric sized to you needs will probably be incorrectly or inappropriately sized for their needs, making an existing system somewhat unsuited for their needs.

No one knows what the future holds, but I'd SWAG it that as solar electric grows, folks will become more knowledgeable and thus perhaps more realistic about its limitations. When/if that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if existing solar is looked on as more of an albatross around the neck of the seller than a selling point for the property.

FWIW, knowing what I know, I'd never buy a house with an existing solar electric system on the property. But, opinions vary.

[SunEagle]

A home is worth no more than someone is willing to pay. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is ugly and in general it sucks. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is great but may want the latest gadgets and toys and not your, say, 10 yr. old outdated technology. Some knowledgeable folks who are home buyers know that solar electric sized to you needs will probably be incorrectly or inappropriately sized for their needs, making an existing system somewhat unsuited for their needs.

No one knows what the future holds, but I'd SWAG it that as solar electric grows, folks will become more knowledgeable and thus perhaps more realistic about its limitations. When/if that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if existing solar is looked on as more of an albatross around the neck of the seller than a selling point for the property.

FWIW, knowing what I know, I'd never buy a house with an existing solar electric system on the property. But, opinions vary.

I agree with you. It all comes down to what people see as a "value added" feature to their home.

To most a solar pv system could be a benefit but is not necessarily "value added" especially if it is more than a few years old. To others it could be a detraction due to way they perceive how it looks.

Maybe in a few years when (if) a larger portion of the home owners really desire a solar pv system then it could be valued as high as a new kitchen.

[SoCalsolar]

current study

http://energy.sandia.gov/energy/renewable-energy/solar-energy/photovoltaics/solar-market-tranformation/pv-value/

there are some recent ones here.One of the recent by Berkeley Labs has the system added value decrease by 10% a year. there is info for leases and pace financing if you look.

[SunEagle]

http://energy.sandia.gov/energy/rene...tion/pv-value/

there are some recent ones here.One of the recent by Berkeley Labs has the system added value decrease by 10% a year. there is info for leases and pace financing if you look.

The sad part of trying to determine what adds value to a home is a moving target and can be completely useless without input from people in the Real Estate market, recent home Sellers and Buyers.

Besides "location" being a top determination for buying a house, what the interior looks like is also a big factor. Peoples taste change. Shag carpets and bright wall paper were a big draw in the 70's. Then there was the black, white and metal decor. The appeal of color, material and functionality in a home changes like the weather. A pool could be a be draw for people or a turn off if they are fearful of a child drowning. Color of appliances (frigs, stove, dishwasher, etc.) go from yellow to white to black to stainless steel. What appeals to people will continue to change and will be hard to predict.

Unless the feature or appliance is a current "must have" or an "absolute" need the probability that it will be passe and not wanted the longer it has been installed.