SolarCity 20-year lease too good to be true?

[JoelInCali]

I did read the thread....

I read the thread completely before posting. And obviously I ended up on the side of lease being better. Remember, this is a pre-paid lease. $7900 out of pocket and done. And while it is a 20-year lease, I could conceivably own these panels indefinitely assuming they don't exercise their right to come remove them. There are a lot of factors in determining whether this lease will be better than an outright purchase. Some of them being

• How long you plan to live in the house?
• How aggressive or conservative you are when it comes to investing (stock market, etc.)?
• How handy you are with respect to support, install, etc.?

I would agree that if you were paying interest on the lease (like if you went 0-down or something) then that situation is a little worse and requires more thought. But by the end of the 20 years, I am calculating a $20-25K savings than without solar and a post-tax ROI of 13-15%. That's not too bad. All profit money after 8-years is not too bad in my opinion.

Of course, no one can predict the future. This lease, though, seemed to be the best in terms of cost/benefit, risk/reward, etc.

[mikegoldnj]

Hi Ken - No, not comparing this to off grid. What I was saying is that one can not lease such as that and claim they have done a green thing as all the rights belong to company doing the leasing.

That makes no sense whatsoever. The company owning the tax credit and SRECs does not negate the 'green' value of the homeowner lowering his or her carbon footprint.

[JoelInCali]

"You didn't get a good deal, you were just f#%*ed gently. Trust me, (Insert leasing company name) will not be the one with the sore a#*hole tomorrow."

Well, if at the end of the 20 years I end up saving $20-25K on my $7.9K investment, without upkeep worry, and getting to keep the system after the lease is done, while all the while doing my little part to promote renewable energy ... the gentle f*&k will be well worth it to me.

The bottom line is: I paid $7.9K. That's it. No more. After 20 years, will I have gotten everything I expected to get out of that investment? I think I will.

[mikegoldnj]

Leases, at least every lease I have ever encountered through SUn Run, Sunpower, Sungevity, Verengo, Blah BLah BLah...sign you up on a 15-20 year program. From there your rate is set to go up at 2.9% per year during that time frame. I don't have much solar city experience, but thats the lease hook.

The SunRun deal we were looking at was actually a power purchase agreement with a static per KwH rate for the entire term of the agreement. The SunEdison lease we have been looking at has the monthly lease payments decreasing by 2% every year of the 20 year term AND we own the SRECs.

[mangoman]

Here is what I paid for electricity for the past 5 years in the same months since my Solar City leased panels were turned on:

April 2007 = 109.84
April 2008 = 107.01
April 2009 = 119.86
April 2010 = 111.65
April 2011 = 1.83

May 2007 = 111.32
May 2008 = 108.62
May 2009 = 108.09
May 2010 = 105.18
May 2011 = 1.77

Plus at this exact moment in time I have 645kWh in the bank for use during the fast coming summer months. Finally I won't have to keep my thermostat at 80 during the summer. I wonder what a 72-75 degree home will feel like.

(I used the same "cute language" as Rich so I am not sure why you would edit it out but thanks for watching out for the kiddies that might be hanging out here.)

[pollytao1984]

Believe the development

Sure,I agree with you.But It getting well in the future.

[russ]

Here is what I paid for electricity for the past 5 years in the same months since my Solar City leased panels were turned on:

April 2007 = 109.84
April 2008 = 107.01
April 2009 = 119.86
April 2010 = 111.65
April 2011 = 1.83

May 2007 = 111.32
May 2008 = 108.62
May 2009 = 108.09
May 2010 = 105.18
May 2011 = 1.77

Plus at this exact moment in time I have 645kWh in the bank for use during the fast coming summer months. Finally I won't have to keep my thermostat at 80 during the summer. I wonder what a 72-75 degree home will feel like.

You have what sized system? You provide no details except what a wonderful deal you got. When does Solar City give your promotion? At least you can mention system size.

They oversized your system so you have export power? No one else has reported seeing anything like that.

You would still pay a meter charge and other items - a 2$ bill - I don't think so.

Regards
Russ

[mangoman]

You have what sized system? You provide no details except what a wonderful deal you got. When does Solar City give your promotion? At least you can mention system size.

They oversized your system so you have export power? No one else has reported seeing anything like that.

You would still pay a meter charge and other items - a 2$ bill - I don't think so.

Regards
Russ

How soon we forget: http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...2562#post22562

And as for my sub $2 electric bills, well see below.
P1.jpgP2.jpgP3.jpg

As you can see, last month I paid $1.83 and this month $1.77. Let me know if you want me to go take a photo of my meter's current reading so you can see exactly how far behind it is from when we first turned the system on. I can assure you however that last night when I posted, it was exactly 645kWh below what it read on March 3rd which was the last meter reading we had before the system was turned on.

It's just killing you that I seem to have gotten a pretty darn good deal from Solar City, and I don't really understand why you cant just accept it.

[russ]

That makes no sense whatsoever. The company owning the tax credit and SRECs does not negate the 'green' value of the homeowner lowering his or her carbon footprint.

Buy a green tee shirt or lease a solar PV system - it is the same thing. You are simply allowing someone else to make the investment - therefor they can claim any 'green' credits.

The leasing company is working on any carbon footprint - you are an innocent bystander.

Russ

[mikegoldnj]

Buy a green tee shirt or lease a solar PV system - it is the same thing. You are simply allowing someone else to make the investment - therefor they can claim any 'green' credits.

The leasing company is working on any carbon footprint - you are an innocent bystander.

Russ

How did you get to be a moderator here? You must really enjoy hearing yourself talk because, clearly, you have no capacity for hearing anyone else's facts or opinions.

[nate]

Seems like the message I was told, was to get the best return on my investment, I shouldn't lease due to the leasing companies taking SREC's instead of me.

However I've been told otherwise by several companies that install systems in Oregon, as well as the reps from Energy Trust of Oregon at the NW Solar Expo. The only option that I see in writing for selling back the power I produce at a higher rate is the Oregon Feed in Tariff program. If you do the Oregon Feed in Tariff program, you are not eligible for the Oregon State Tax credit or the Energy Trust of Oregon rebate. This is true regardless of if you lease or buy the system.

I'd really like more information about what SREC's I'd be able to take advantage of. Is there anything besides the the Oregon Feed in Tariff?

[russ]

Hi Nate - I haven't lived in Oregon since 1978 - a few things have changed most likely.

Try contacting http://www.srectrade.com/fixed_price.php they may be able to help.

I am sure you have seen it but for Oregon http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/i...R23F&re=1&ee=1

The message is -

The entire investment package is what counts - not part of the package.

All the facts in a contract count - not bits and pieces as reported by some. Partial electric bills have no meaning. Maybe CA is different but the utilities need to charge for the grid connection - whether you use more or less their investment cost for the connection and the requirement they provide what one demands any time the party demands has a cost. If the user is not paying that then everyone else is paying for that user.

OR had a special limited deal for net metering at a high rate but I believe the offer is closed now.

Nothing wrong with using the incentives and deals offered by the federal, state governments and utilities - they are there - you and everyone else will pay whether you avail them or not.

Forget most of the green message spread - it is useless chatter - just read the foolishness on many green sites where useless items that don't work are praised by Ed Bagley/Jay Leno (or whatever his name is). We should not make a bigger mess than necessary and should not waste. That is far more green plus good common sense.

Russ

[mangoman]

All the facts in a contract count - not bits and pieces as reported by some. Partial electric bills have no meaning.

Russ

Wow, like I said before, it must be horrible going through life being so mistrusting of everyone.

That was not a partial electric bill I posted. It was the complete bill, minus my account number, name and address. Oh, I also didn't post the back sides of the 6 page bill because they are irrelevant and would have been nothing more than a waste of bandwidth. The back sides of each page contain no billing information, just notices of public hearings. contact information, how to dispute a bill and other "mice type" things. Nothing related to my charges. That info was all contained in the 3 pages I did post.

I really feel bad for you and I hope you get the help you need to become more trusting of your fellow human beings. Maybe you might even smile once in a while.

Everything you have questioned about my deal, I hove posted facts to disprove you and yet you still think you can get some angle on me to show that I am somehow getting screwed by Solar City. Well I have not posted my contract nor would I ever post that for you and I have explained why and you just keep proving that reason over and over again. Feel free to go back and re-read this thread if you forgot those reasons.

[Garthhh]

Wow, like I said before, it must be horrible going through life being so mistrusting of everyone.

That was not a partial electric bill I posted. It was the complete bill, minus my account number, name and address. Oh, I also didn't post the back sides of the 6 page bill because they are irrelevant and would have been nothing more than a waste of bandwidth. The back sides of each page contain no billing information, just notices of public hearings. contact information, how to dispute a bill and other "mice type" things. Nothing related to my charges. That info was all contained in the 3 pages I did post.

I really feel bad for you and I hope you get the help you need to become more trusting of your fellow human beings. Maybe you might even smile once in a while.

Everything you have questioned about my deal, I hove posted facts to disprove you and yet you still think you can get some angle on me to show that I am somehow getting screwed by Solar City. Well I have not posted my contract nor would I ever post that for you and I have explained why and you just keep proving that reason over and over again. Feel free to go back and re-read this thread if you forgot those reasons.

By posting selected parts of the story, you can make it seem any way you wish
testimonials are worthless
post some of the key terms of the lease, actual usage, you know facts
not gloating rah rah bullshine
Sounds like you got the Hank Hill deal & are trying your best to spin it a different way

[mangoman]

By posting selected parts of the story, you can make it seem any way you wish
testimonials are worthless
post some of the key terms of the lease, actual usage, you know facts
not gloating rah rah bullshine
Sounds like you got the Hank Hill deal & are trying your best to spin it a different way

Nice try chief but it ain't gonna happen. I have posted everything that has been asked of me other than the actual lease. My bill even includes my usage. I have no idea who Hank Hill is so I don't know what that comparission is about.

I went through this thread again. I had forgotten that Russ had gotten his hands on a few peoples contracts. He even admitted that 1 of them seeded like a good deal. He never commented on the others. Perhaps because they were also good deals further making him look foolish for bashing on those of us with Solar City leases.