SolarCity 20-year lease too good to be true?

[mangoman]

Poor fellow wouldn't want to lose!

Russ

Not that I wouldn't want to lose, it's that I cannot possibly win. There is a difference.

But now you and at least 1 other person here have their hands on at least 1 person's lease agreement. I will be interested to hear your thoughts on it, perhaps in comparison to the 1 other agreement that you say you have seen.

[Bob & Tom]

I just tried to upload my Solar City Lease to this thread. I would be interested to see what you guys think. I think it is a great deal. Problem is the PDF is over 700kb and the max file size I can attach is 78kb.

If anyone wants me to mail it to them, let me know your e-mail address.

[russ]

Not that I wouldn't want to lose, it's that I cannot possibly win. There is a difference.

But now you and at least 1 other person here have their hands on at least 1 person's lease agreement. I will be interested to hear your thoughts on it, perhaps in comparison to the 1 other agreement that you say you have seen.

I haven't received the new ones yet - just replied to Chris plus Bob & Tom.

The one I have seen before I have on my hard drive so no problem with access to it.

Russ

[csriram45]

I too don't mind sending mine as well as seeing others because this would help me better to evaluate mine with others.

May be a good idea to great a google group that we can share our documents with?

Anyone else willing share their lease please at csriram45 at yahoo dot com

I am more than happy to share mine...

[Naptown]

I took a brief look at Mangoman's lease.
Pretty standard, a few onerous parts. however I did not run the financial end on it to see if he could have made out better on a purchase.
Mangoman please divulge who your utility is, any local incentives and the current value of REC's and what the Alternate compliance payment is in the RPS.
I do not have the energy to look all of it up to run a return on investment calculation.
Someone posted one here that seemed to be missing a lot of input as far as SRECs etc are concerned.

[mangoman]

I took a brief look at Mangoman's lease.
Pretty standard, a few onerous parts. however I did not run the financial end on it to see if he could have made out better on a purchase.
Mangoman please divulge who your utility is, any local incentives and the current value of REC's and what the Alternate compliance payment is in the RPS.
I do not have the energy to look all of it up to run a return on investment calculation.
Someone posted one here that seemed to be missing a lot of input as far as SRECs etc are concerned.

I've not sent anyone my lease

[russ]

I've not sent anyone my lease

I believe Rich got a name mixed up.

Russ

[russ]

From what I see in the new lease copy I have received (1) it is a good deal - totally unlike the previous one I had seen.

I will post more comments later on today.

Russ

[Naptown]

The name is probably confused on my part. The e mail I got didn't use a screen name.

[russ]

Comments on the lease copy I received -

A) Far more fair than the earlier version I had seen - that was from Arizona if I remember right.

B) Everything is laid out clearly

This lease I can not complain about.

********************

From the lease -

1) You are responsible for any sales or use taxes on the monthly payment - present of future

2) You will keep the panels clean and prevent sun blockage - pursuant to the Limited Warranty and Guide. Don't know what happens if the problem is on the neighbors property.

3) If it is an agreement where you own the panels at the end of the lease, any taxes are to your account

4) You guarantee reasonable access will be allowed as required for system maintenance and a right of way if Solar City deems it necessary

5) Solar City insures the system

6) Any and all tax credits, incentives, renewable energy credits, green tags, carbon offsets, utility rebates - are the property of Solar City - now and in the future

7) Selling home? Conditions must be met (what I read are reasonable ones anyway)

8) High speed internet connection will be provided by the homeowner

9) Guaranteed energy price for the life of the contract is 21 US cents/kWh with no escalation

10) Production guarantees are provided and any excess production goes to the lease holder free of charge

11) Applicable law - Arbitration only is a condition of the contract

12) If your home is sitting empty - you keep on making payments

Russ

[mangoman]

Comments on the lease copy I received -

A) Far more fair than the earlier version I had seen - that was from Arizona if I remember right.

B) Everything is laid out clearly

This lease I can not complain about.

********************

From the lease -

1) You are responsible for any sales or use taxes on the monthly payment - present of future

2) You will keep the panels clean and prevent sun blockage - pursuant to the Limited Warranty and Guide. Don't know what happens if the problem is on the neighbors property.

3) If it is an agreement where you own the panels at the end of the lease, any taxes are to your account

4) You guarantee reasonable access will be allowed as required for system maintenance and a right of way if Solar City deems it necessary

5) Solar City insures the system

6) Any and all tax credits, incentives, renewable energy credits, green tags, carbon offsets, utility rebates - are the property of Solar City - now and in the future

7) Selling home? Conditions must be met (what I read are reasonable ones anyway)

8) High speed internet connection will be provided by the homeowner

9) Guaranteed energy price for the life of the contract is 21 US cents/kWh with no escalation

10) Production guarantees are provided and any excess production goes to the lease holder free of charge

11) Applicable law - Arbitration only is a condition of the contract

12) If your home is sitting empty - you keep on making payments

Russ

In reference to item 2, if these lease you are looking at is from California than there is the California Solar Shade Control Act (California Public Resource Code 25980-25986) that can be enforced on neighbors. It basically says that if I put in solar and you plant a tree that casts a shadow on at least 10% of my panels between 10AM and 2PM, then your tree has to go.

During the install of my panels I got the impression that some city owned trees might cause a problem with shade. I contacted the city and they have assured me that if at any time during the year shading was a problem that I should just let them know and they will take care of it in accordance with the CSSCA, even though cities can exclude themselves from the provision of the act under section 25985 of the act.

So far, the trees have not been a problem.

Can I ask, whose lease of the 3 that have either sent or offered to send you, that you are reviewing here? I believe csriram, dowzer and bob & tom have all offered theirs to you.

From what you post above, my contract seems very similar. About the only thing in mine that could be of concern that you do not list above is that SC has the right to at any time sell their interest in the lease to another party. Well as long as no parts of the agreement are changed as a result of the transfer than that is fine, if necessary.

Otherwise it seems my contract is quite similar to the one you review above.

[russ]

I can't tell who sent me the document - whether one of those or another - or from another site. I have told the person that I would not do so.

Interesting about the shade problem - that is good overall though the person whose tree gets trimmed may disagree.

I did not note the clause that SC can sell the lease at any time as that is standard and to be expected.

The earlier lease that I had seen/got a copy of was not a good deal to me - much more in favor of the leasing company. This seems to be OK.

One thing people must remember is that this is for a portion of the overall electric bill. The remainder will be from the utility at current prices per kWh.

One should try to be careful how they locate this on the roof or property - a person might decide to add a separate system on their own later only to find out that it was very difficult due to the way the Solar City system was located. In that event one would have to get permission from SC and pay the cost of relocating the original system and do it to their satisfaction.

Russ

[Winsox]

I just tried to upload my Solar City Lease to this thread. I would be interested to see what you guys think. I think it is a great deal. Problem is the PDF is over 700kb and the max file size I can attach is 78kb.

If anyone wants me to mail it to them, let me know your e-mail address.

So I'm interested in putting a sysytem on my place but do not have the $3K - $8K needed lying around. Leasing looks like the better deal plus the insurance and upkeep on the equipment is included. Yes i would welcome the chance to look over the lease - winsox@netzero.net

[Naptown]

So I'm interested in putting a sysytem on my place but do not have the $3K - $8K needed lying around. Leasing looks like the better deal plus the insurance and upkeep on the equipment is included. Yes i would welcome the chance to look over the lease - winsox@netzero.net

Best way to do that is have them come out and take a look and prepare one for you.
Costs and terms will vary state to state and even county and utility.

[phubner]

@russ -

Sorry if I stepped on some toes when I posted my analysis on the offer presented to me (post #47). As I said in the portion of my post that you deleted, I choose not to go with the lease, so it wasn't praise for SC.

I was surprised by the lack of detailed numbers being shown in the thread, so posted the highlights of the offer that SolarC gave to me, and compared it to my local rates. It wasn't praise but my actual numbers.

I thought I was helping by sharing more numbers than most. Cest la vie.