SolarCity 20-year lease too good to be true?

[KRenn]

Maybe because the licensed contractor (I had a General Contractors License in NC for that matter) is blowing smoke. Born and raised in the US and still have citizenship. I have certainly paid one heck of a lot more US taxes than you have dreamed of. Why the concern about my location? You don't even mention your location as being in southern CA.

You have no idea of how money works - the solar leasing companies are using the homeowners credit and cash plus money from the treasury to earn money. The tax payer is providing the solar leasing companies profit.

Solar integrator - does that sound better than solar salesman for some reason - that is all the term means. Maybe for rednecks it is impressive but for most I doubt they are impressed. Maybe the poster just started and is impressed with the term.

Working with a local sales company is always preferable unless one is installing the equipment themselves.

Gee! - all that blowing of smoke and the poster (solar salesman) said nothing different than is always said on this site.

Best Regards,
Russ

LOL, very true. I'm not a Salesperson, I'm a Solar Solutions Helper Type Person....err Integrator...etc.



Bottomline, buying is always best, buy the system, own it, its yours, there's no strings attached, I don't know of many people who lease their fridge or their actual roof, why lease the panels?

That said, if the price range is too out there, a prepaid lease is not a bad way to get go as long as you verify everything that is included from the company, what their responsibilities are AND what YOUR responsibilities are(prepaid leases vary in requiring you to provide insurance, to regularly clean the panels, to do various other tasks).


At the bottom is the month to month lease and the only way I'd recommend getting into a month to month agreement is if there's 0% escalator in the deal. That is, you make the same exact payment, year after year, no changes to it, and if the initial savings aren't at least $15 a month, I'd simply say no thanks and walk away from the deal entirely.



That said, people shouldn't act like these leasing companies aren't taking advantage of various tax law technicalities to make this feasible, they jack up the system cost to maximize the 30% tax credit, so now we're essentially having taxpayers foot the bill for these companies to guarantee their investors a 10% return. Its not a very clean business model whatsoever.

[russ]

Maybe because the licensed contractor (I had a General Contractors License in NC for that matter) is blowing smoke. Born and raised in the US and still have citizenship. I have certainly paid one heck of a lot more US taxes than you have dreamed of. Why the concern about my location? You don't even mention your location as being in southern CA.

You have no idea of how money works - the solar leasing companies are using the homeowners credit and cash plus money from the treasury to earn money. The tax payer is providing the solar leasing companies profit.

Solar integrator - does that sound better than solar salesman for some reason - that is all the term means. Maybe for rednecks it is impressive but for most I doubt they are impressed. Maybe the poster just started and is impressed with the term.

Working with a local sales company is always preferable unless one is installing the equipment themselves.

Gee! - all that blowing of smoke and the poster (solar salesman) said nothing different than is always said on this site.

Best Regards,
Russ

Bottom Line

Each individual must make a decision based on their needs. Frankly, this thread is full of BS. Why would anyone listen to a moderator from Turkey over a local licensed contractor?

Companies like Solar City, Sungevity, SunRun, SunCap all offer a choice for the consumer. Do I take my cash and invest in purchasing a solar system or do I give up return, let the leasing company make the investment and take the risk? There is no guarantee they will make money. You are paying for their estimated default risk. If they are wrong, they lose.

As far a SRECs are concerned. This is a potential revenue stream for any solar system. The leasing companies are factoring this in and hope they will have value. If anything, they are in a better position to capitalize on their value that the individual homeowner.

As a solar integrator, I say buy it if you can afford it but don't pay too much for it. Get three purchase quotes so you know your market. Sleep on your quotes, if the salesman pressures you to sign today to get the special deal, kick them out of your house and cross them off your list. If you don't have the cash or can't get a loan then a lease is worth considering. Again, get three lease quotes. If the salesman doesn't thoroughly answer every question, walk.

If working with a quality local integrator you will be given both purchase and lease options, central or micro inverter choices and panel choices. They will answer all your questions and present with a consultative sales approach. You also have someone to call if you have a problem.

Bottom Line... buying is best for most, but leasing is a viable option. In most cases, both are better than doing nothing. GET THREE QUOTES whether buying or leasing.

[russ]

Europe -

the German and Spanish governments have spent immense sums on subsidized solar - for little production.

the rest of Europe has done little - the UK just jumped on the bandwagon with gross subsidies but that should end as soon as the annual cost is totaled up.

Russ

[maestroX2]

of course.... the installers gave the quote without even go on top my roof have been eliminated from our list. By end of this month, we'll sign contract. I think I know much more about solar technology than a week before. IMHO, all houses in So Cal should have at least small solar system on their roof. Kind of interesting fact that Europe has more solar demand than us but we do have more solar exposure.

[russ]

The home shell is an engineered structure - when you start adding things like solar panels on the roof there are many considerations such as weight, wind load, type of roof etc. That has to be seen to be evaluated.

The orientation of the roof and shading can only be evaluated in person.

Cabling, inverter location etc can add a substantial amount in some cases I suppose. If the electric service has to be upgraded that would be costly.

Anyone that makes a firm quote before a site survey is either an idiot or giving such a high quote that all possibilities are covered. That guy you don't want to deal with.

Russ

[Naptown]

They are really pushing the PPA. I simply get annoyed with the sales tactics. I already cancel 2 meetings. Screw them and their sales pitch. I know what I want.... I just want the freaking quote.

Solar sales is what I do for a living. Although I will give a ballpark range over the phone it is absolutely necessary to visit the site, educate you on the equipment that is available, survey the conditions as far as shading actual roof area ( Google is not that accurate) service size and available space in panel, roof structure for structural engineering etc. When all of this is done you will have a bit more education and a firm quote so that you can make an informed decision with no surprises later on.

We also do not do leasing or PPA's for residential.

[KRenn]

They are really pushing the PPA. I simply get annoyed with the sales tactics. I already cancel 2 meetings. Screw them and their sales pitch. I know what I want.... I just want the freaking quote.

Most leasing companies have quote online/by email feature, if you have
salesmen coming into your home, you have to expect for them to do their
pitch, its a crucial part of their job, so it shouldn't be something to make you
irate, even the best and most honest salespeople will have a certain amount of
BS, just deal with it, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[maestroX2]

The leasing company most likely will not want the panels back - however they certainly will have a contract with a party to handle that for them and that party will want the panels.

If they have thousands of installations that will be a significant income to close out a contract.

I would not plan on them not being removed. As was pointed out that is no more than salesman's talk.

Russ

They are really pushing the PPA. I simply get annoyed with the sales tactics. I already cancel 2 meetings. Screw them and their sales pitch. I know what I want.... I just want the freaking quote.

[russ]

The leasing company most likely will not want the panels back - however they certainly will have a contract with a party to handle that for them and that party will want the panels.

If they have thousands of installations that will be a significant income to close out a contract.

I would not plan on them not being removed. As was pointed out that is no more than salesman's talk.

Russ

[KRenn]

Thanks.. I talked to one of the installer, he said, the prepaid leasing company won't want the panel back. The cost to remove the system will be more expensive than the panel itself. Asked him whether it is in writing or guarantee, he can't give that.

The advantage on prepaid lease, you pay small upfront money and save about $2k over the total cost.

I'd just pay the whole system myself. I pay uncle sams way too much every year so $10k tax break will be handful next year.

Don't believe that nonsense. Someone will come for those panels. What he gave you is the common salesmen talk. Those panels will still have value, whether they end up in a recycling program or sold into the third-world.


If you have tax liability, I would absolutely go ahead and purchase the system, own it outright and cut off any added strings.

[maestroX2]

It all depends on the area you're in and the leasing program you're discussing. Most of them after 20 years give you 3 options, A. buy the system at FMV(Fair Market Value), B. Have the system removed at no cost(although the shape they will leave your roof in after that varies greatly) or C. Renew the lease annually.


Some will tell you that after 20 years you can buy the system for a set price such as $100.00 which if you consult a tax attorney, they will tell you that is illegal. You can't offer a lease program like they do and disclose an actual amount for
purchase value, it always has to be left as FMV at that time.


As far as transfer rules, these vary greatly as well, with some companies, regardless of what happens, you're basically locked in and will be paying for that system for 20 years, regardless if you sell the house, with others, the buyer has to be credit-worthy to take the lease and if they don't want the lease, well you're still stuck paying for it. Some let you buy the lease out early for FMV at the 6 year mark while others give no buy-out option until Year 20.


On a prepaid lease, you pay everything upfront and then the system is essentially yours for 20 years, easy transfer, no credit needed, system still isn't yours after 20, but can be purchased at FMV or removed at no cost.

Thanks.. I talked to one of the installer, he said, the prepaid leasing company won't want the panel back. The cost to remove the system will be more expensive than the panel itself. Asked him whether it is in writing or guarantee, he can't give that.

The advantage on prepaid lease, you pay small upfront money and save about $2k over the total cost.

I'd just pay the whole system myself. I pay uncle sams way too much every year so $10k tax break will be handful next year.

[KRenn]

I'm in the process of hiring some contractors to install Solar. many of the companies are really pushing the lease.

Just quick question:-
i) what happen after your 20 year lease is up ? The solar on top of your roof are theirs or yours?
ii) what happen if you "have" to move/sell your house ?

It all depends on the area you're in and the leasing program you're discussing. Most of them after 20 years give you 3 options, A. buy the system at FMV(Fair Market Value), B. Have the system removed at no cost(although the shape they will leave your roof in after that varies greatly) or C. Renew the lease annually.


Some will tell you that after 20 years you can buy the system for a set price such as $100.00 which if you consult a tax attorney, they will tell you that is illegal. You can't offer a lease program like they do and disclose an actual amount for
purchase value, it always has to be left as FMV at that time.


As far as transfer rules, these vary greatly as well, with some companies, regardless of what happens, you're basically locked in and will be paying for that system for 20 years, regardless if you sell the house, with others, the buyer has to be credit-worthy to take the lease and if they don't want the lease, well you're still stuck paying for it. Some let you buy the lease out early for FMV at the 6 year mark while others give no buy-out option until Year 20.


On a prepaid lease, you pay everything upfront and then the system is essentially yours for 20 years, easy transfer, no credit needed, system still isn't yours after 20, but can be purchased at FMV or removed at no cost.

[maestroX2]

I'm in the process of hiring some contractors to install Solar. many of the companies are really pushing the lease.

Just quick question:-
i) what happen after your 20 year lease is up ? The solar on top of your roof are theirs or yours?
ii) what happen if you "have" to move/sell your house ?

[russ]

I am soo impressed -