Opinion on two offers

[htycek]

Hello,
I'm new to forum ( which is pretty awesome source of info - thank you for that ).
I'm looking into installing solar system on our house in Sacramento / Stockton area.
Average bill $80-$100 with average usage per year of 5800 kWh.

Got 4 different contractors and I have selected two to get your opinion:

1) system price : $ 18443
- 12 SunPower SPR-E20-327-C-AC Modules, ; System Size: 3,924 DC W (STC) ( microinverters build in )
- All inclusive - panels, labor, warranty, design, engineering 25 years

2) system price : $15,895.00
- system size : 3510 DC W
- 13 x Kyocera KU270-6MCA 270 W with 25 year workmanship and parts warranty
- inverter:: Solar Edge SE 3800 - 25 year warranty
- 13 x DC Optimizers

10 labor warranty


I'm planning to take a loan in MCCU at 2.99% for 12 years.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[etsubha]

Hey buddy - not to sound negative or discouraging but I find your both options, at $4.7/w and $4.4/w, sound outrageously expensive unless you have a peculiar situation that makes install unusually complex. I'm getting mine close to $3/w from a local but reputed installer, and I know of a friend who's getting $3.3x/w from a national installer for LG 300/320 Neon2 panels with Solar edge optimizers.This is from bay area though. You may want to check out threads from this post https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...-forum-members (my installer is not in that list though).

[etsubha]

My response was unapproved! Anyway, you can check my other posts to learn what i have to say about the cost. My heart sinks when common people get ripped off with overpricing.

[J.P.M.]

The prices you report are higher than others report. The Sunpower price is not too out of line with other Sunpower prices, but Sunpower stuff is always overpriced by 20-30% compared to other quality equipment that's equally fit for purpose. The Kyocera price is even more out of line. I've seen Kyocera systems contracts for ~ $3.70/Watt, and that was 2 yrs. ago and not much of a deal even back then. Read "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies", get an education before you get more quotes. Your ignorance will cost you a lot of money.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

[htycek]

Both quotes came from large local contractors with large number of completed projects. I have pretty straight forward installation : 4-6 panels on south roof and rest of them on west side. 4 years old concrete tile roof. Both options seems to be hight comparing with others. I will take a look at book you have suggested-thanks.I will keep searching for better offers. I had offer for $3.75 /W with Trina panels but contractor is very small and hard to trust that they will stay long enough in business to cover their warranties.

[J.P.M.]

Both quotes came from large local contractors with large number of completed projects. I have pretty straight forward installation : 4-6 panels on south roof and rest of them on west side. 4 years old concrete tile roof. Both options seems to be hight comparing with others. I will take a look at book you have suggested-thanks.I will keep searching for better offers. I had offer for $3.75 /W with Trina panels but contractor is very small and hard to trust that they will stay long enough in business to cover their warranties.

Length of time as a licensed local/regional electrical contractor who's done PV for at least 5 yrs. is, IMO a better indicator of the probability of a successful install than size alone.

BTW, everything is negotiable, but if you squeeze too hard, a vendor will squeeze back on quality in ways you'll never know or understand. There is a price that the market sets for commodity type goods/services. For my area, it's about $3.25 - $3.50/Watt for good quality residential solar. The rest is hype that feeds on customer ignorance. Your area may be similar.

[littleharbor]

What sort of premium will a person pay for an installation on a tile roof compared to asphalt shingles?

[Gavin]

For us a tile roof install would be around 2-3x higher than standard shingles.
4-statesolar com

[htycek]

I just found on solar reviews page the avarege cost in 2015:
3KW - $4.41W
5KW - $4.04/W
So definitely my quotes are higher.
If I understand correctly SunPower is good choice with limited space , everyone confirms that they are better quality system but it's not worth it for most users to pay extra.
I guest I need to keep looking for better offers and maybe negotiate some with current offer provider.
Did anyone tried Sunrun via Costco?

[Gavin]

You guys should definitely get another bid from 4-StateSolar. Our systems for 5KW average around $2.79/watt.

We ship anywhere, contact us for more info on how to save much more money over other suppliers.

[J.P.M.]

I just found on solar reviews page the avarege cost in 2015:
3KW - $4.41W
5KW - $4.04/W
So definitely my quotes are higher.
If I understand correctly SunPower is good choice with limited space , everyone confirms that they are better quality system but it's not worth it for most users to pay extra.
I guest I need to keep looking for better offers and maybe negotiate some with current offer provider.
Did anyone tried Sunrun via Costco?

I suppose the solar reviews include the overpriced Sunpower stuff that skews the average, as does the prices paid by the solar ignorant.

On Sunrun/Costco: You can do a lot better quality than that for less $$ with a quality local vendor. FWIW, I wouldn't buy solar in the same place I buy crap wrap and graze for free food while I shop. Just sayin'.

[littleharbor]

The OP states his install is going on a tile roof, wouldn't that make his bids more in the ballpark?

[J.P.M.]

The OP states his install is going on a tile roof, wouldn't that make his bids more in the ballpark?

Only if someone is trying to justify getting ripped off because they lack the grunt/sack to negotiate. Anyway, Not in my neighborhood/area. There's a lot of jobs on mission tile or flat lite wt. concrete installed for about the same price as on composition shingles. Read the posts on this forum.

Look, $3.25 - $3.50 is not what everyone pays in so. CA, and no. CA and environs, and probably other areas a swell. It's a realistic and possible goal. Many often pay more, including my neighbors, in spite of my efforts. Some others lease or PPA and for the most part really get screwed, mostly because of ignorance. Not my money/house/life.

Extra like electrical panel work or roof remediation will add to that price.

But, it is possible to get a quality PV install on a tile roof from a quality vendor for that price. However, It's a goal - not a birthright ! To get a sharp price :1.) You must know what you want and why. 2.) You must know what's available and possible, independent of the vendor, unless you think the fox guarding the henhouse is a good idea. 3.) You must ask for a price, and learn how to say: "No - too high - sharpen your pencil". 4.) You must remember, everything is negotiable, and be prepared to negotiate.

Vendors know where the competition is and where they need to be on price to survive. However, they have absolutely no reason to drop their pants and give their best price when a customer is clueless about what they're buying or what it costs, especially when the customer is running in near panic from a self induced high electric bill with what amounts to a big target painted on their face.

[etsubha]

Love your posts JPM. I got to admit I am a big fan of your words of wisdom.

[cebury]

You would be getting quotes for $3/watt from that area, excluding any panel upgrade, and maybe a few/several hundred more for tile roof. Thee quotes could come from smaller vendors.

But if you want the big guys for perceived longevity in support, and that is worth ian extra 2500 bucks or so for that peace of mind, it's your call.

5800kwh /year and average monthly of $80-100 you are already on the borderline of this being financially a go -- your break even is already 12+ years out. Pretty far for most folks.

[J.P.M.]

Love your posts JPM. I got to admit I am a big fan of your words of wisdom.

I'm just here to help the team. You like our service, tell your friends.