Solar panel rebates for Idaho?

[huntermatt]

I am going to be installing a grid tied panel system in Southeast Idaho this summer. I am debating on whether to just size it for what my needs are (under 10kwh) or if I should do it as big as the power company will allow (25kwh). They purchase any excess electricity back from the customer, so it sounds like a pretty good deal. I am looking for information on the incentives and rebates that are offered from Idaho, in addition to the 30% federal rebate. Can anyone offer any insight or advice on these topics?
Thanks!

[solar pete]

Hello huntermatt and welcome to Solar Panel Talk, I just had a look at this page and it might need up dating but its a good place to start, cheers

http://www.solarreviews.com/solar-power/rebates-and-incentives-solar-power-systems-usa/state-incentives/idaho/

[SunEagle]

I would be cautious with over sizing a pv system based on the present purchase price of excess electricity. Nevada and Hawaii POCO's recently lowered the price of what they pay a homeowner for their power.

IMO all POCO's in the future will be able to reduce what they have to pay a homeowner which could make your ROI a lot longer for a big system.

[huntermatt]

Thanks for the input so far! Solar Pete, that page looks like its about 4 years old. I wonder if things have changed? I emailed my accountant to see if she happens to know the benefits.
Sun Eagle, that is definitely something to think about! What is considered a "good" ROI when it comes to solar? At current rates and rebate/incentives, it appears that my system would pay for itself within about 4 or 4 1/2 years. Is that good or bad? What does POCO stand for?

[SunEagle]

Thanks for the input so far! Solar Pete, that page looks like its about 4 years old. I wonder if things have changed? I emailed my accountant to see if she happens to know the benefits.
Sun Eagle, that is definitely something to think about! What is considered a "good" ROI when it comes to solar? At current rates and rebate/incentives, it appears that my system would pay for itself within about 4 or 4 1/2 years. Is that good or bad? What does POCO stand for?

A payback of less than 5 years would be considered pretty good. For me the payback is closer to 10 years which would be a bad way to spend my money since I plan on retiring and selling this home in less than 5 years.

POCO = Power Company.

[J.P.M.]

I am going to be installing a grid tied panel system in Southeast Idaho this summer. I am debating on whether to just size it for what my needs are (under 10kwh) or if I should do it as big as the power company will allow (25kwh). They purchase any excess electricity back from the customer, so it sounds like a pretty good deal. I am looking for information on the incentives and rebates that are offered from Idaho, in addition to the 30% federal rebate. Can anyone offer any insight or advice on these topics?
Thanks!

I'd start by understanding how the solar process works. Then, some estimate of potential annual output for your location and orientation(s) per installed kW of PV. Next, understanding how you pay for it grid electricity now, and the options (tariffs) available to you, including all the actual details of overproduction production payments - actual - not what you hear from others. Then, an informed opinion about what will happen to rates, tariffs, and you, in the future.

After all that, get a handle on your current and estimated future usage. Then decide what you want solar PV to do for you - offset some of an electric bill or turn you into the owner of a power company that supplies power to your POCO.

Unless you have a very generous excess generation tariff that is likely to stay in place for several years, installing a 25 kW system when a 10 kW system or less will meet all your needs sounds like a pretty risky proposition to me. Just walk in with your eyes open. That means some serious homework.

[huntermatt]

A payback of less than 5 years would be considered pretty good. For me the payback is closer to 10 years which would be a bad way to spend my money since I plan on retiring and selling this home in less than 5 years.

POCO = Power Company.

So I should be happy with a 4-4.5 year payback? I am about 30 years from retirement, so I have a long time to let the panels work for me!

[huntermatt]

I'd start by understanding how the solar process works. Then, some estimate of potential annual output for your location and orientation(s) per installed kW of PV. Next, understanding how you pay for it grid electricity now, and the options (tariffs) available to you, including all the actual details of overproduction production payments - actual - not what you hear from others. Then, an informed opinion about what will happen to rates, tariffs, and you, in the future.

After all that, get a handle on your current and estimated future usage. Then decide what you want solar PV to do for you - offset some of an electric bill or turn you into the owner of a power company that supplies power to your POCO.

Unless you have a very generous excess generation tariff that is likely to stay in place for several years, installing a 25 kW system when a 10 kW system or less will meet all your needs sounds like a pretty risky proposition to me. Just walk in with your eyes open. That means some serious homework.

Thanks for the response! From what I have researched, Southern Idaho gets about 5.5 hours per day of sunlight averaged over the year. On a 25kWh system, the amount of electricity produced per day would be about 25kWhx5.5. Multiply that by 30 days in the month and that gives you roughly 4.1MWh per month. Assuming that I use around 800 kWh per month, that would leave 3.3 mWh per month to be paid out on.

According to the power company (Rocky Mtn Power), during the summer months they are paying customers $.111634/kwh and during the winter months, they are paying $.086124/kwh.

If you multiply 3.3mwh (leftover electricity per month), by .1116 you get about $363 back in the summer months.

During the winter months, (3.3mwh x .086124) you would get about $284 back per month.

It seems like a pretty solid deal right now. My only concern is whether or not they will continue to pay that amount for the next few years??

[SunEagle]

Thanks for the response! From what I have researched, Southern Idaho gets about 5.5 hours per day of sunlight averaged over the year. On a 25kWh system, the amount of electricity produced per day would be about 25kWhx5.5. Multiply that by 30 days in the month and that gives you roughly 4.1MWh per month. Assuming that I use around 800 kWh per month, that would leave 3.3 mWh per month to be paid out on.

According to the power company (Rocky Mtn Power), during the summer months they are paying customers $.111634/kwh and during the winter months, they are paying $.086124/kwh.

If you multiply 3.3mwh (leftover electricity per month), by .1116 you get about $363 back in the summer months.

During the winter months, (3.3mwh x .086124) you would get about $284 back per month.

It seems like a pretty solid deal right now. My only concern is whether or not they will continue to pay that amount for the next few years??

Remember there is an efficiency loss between DC kWh and Ac kWh. Also you will not get the same amount of sun throughout the month due to clouds and angle of the sun. So your math may be off a little.

[J.P.M.]

OP: Your numbers are off. Get educated on the solar resource and how PV works.

If your area gets an average of 5.5 kWh/day per m^2 of solar energy on a horizontal surface (which is what that anachronistic term "sun hours per day" actually refers to). However, that is not what a solar array will see. On an "average" day, a solar array may see a fair amount more or a lot less of something called plane of array irradiance, and that # also depends on array orientation. Ideal array orientation may increase the yearly plane of array over the horizontal irradiance by 20-30% or so.

Second, a decent quality solar PV array will probably harvest something like, very approximately, 15% to maybe 18% of that plane of the plane of array irradiance it sees over the course of a year, not 100% as your #'s want to show.

A suggestion: After you download and read "Solar Power Your Home or Dummies" (free for the download BTW), Check out something called PVWatts on the net. Spend 20 min. or so reading the help/info screens and do a few runs.

My SWAG is you'll harvest something like 1,300 to 1,500 kWh/yr per D.C. kilowatt of installed PV, or something like 35,000 kWh/yr. for a 25 kW array in your part of the country as a long term average annual output with a decent array orientation.

Knowledge is power. Acquire some of the first. The second one will follow. Without it, you'll waste money and peddlers will use your solar ignorance to screw you.

There is a bit more to this than you know about at this time. The book and PVWatts, in that order provide a good start.

BTW: Systems are sized in Watts or kiloWatts - units of power - not "kwh" - units of energy.

Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

[Sunking]

Careful. Your math sucks and when you factor in Idaho has dirt cheap electric rates (8-cents) ROI is measured in decades to just break even. You would be better off just investing the money, leave it alone for 20 years, and can retire on it.Put that same money in Solar for 20 years and you are broke.