Rate plans eligible for buy back in Texas

[SunEagle]

Exactly! The bill will be less no matter what, the moving scale is the time it will take for the system to pay for itself. Like you stated, base on today's figures that is in 6 years. That can go up or down based on the market conditions, but based on historical data that figure is not expected to change much. Finally someone with common sense on this forum.

Based on historical data the average $/kWh Utility rates have gone down in the US and shouldn't change much for the standard electrical consumer. But with the latest push by the POCO's (across many states) they are trying to get back some of what they lost due to local solar systems installations.

IMO you will start to see a significant increase in costs directed mostly at those local solar system owners which will extend any payback timeline. Or like in Florida you will see all of the solar pv "rebates" disappear so there will be no new installations due to the higher cost.

Look. I don't have any more information than the others here on this forum. They are trying to tell you that currently people who install a solar pv system are getting rebates from the State, POCO and Fed but that money comes from a "pool" and that bucket of money is filled from everyone's pocket through local, state, POCO and Fed taxes & fees. So technically everyone is paying a part of your installation.

[txcas]

Based on historical data the average $/kWh Utility rates have gone down in the US and shouldn't change much for the standard electrical consumer. But with the latest push by the POCO's (across many states) they are trying to get back some of what they lost due to local solar systems installations.

IMO you will start to see a significant increase in costs directed mostly at those local solar system owners which will extend any payback timeline. Or like in Florida you will see all of the solar pv "rebates" disappear so there will be no new installations due to the higher cost.

Look. I don't have any more information than the others here on this forum. They are trying to tell you that currently people who install a solar pv system are getting rebates from the State, POCO and Fed but that money comes from a "pool" and that bucket of money is filled from everyone's pocket through local, state, POCO and Fed taxes & fees. So technically everyone is paying a part of your installation.

The statement that the Fed money comes from a pool is incorrect. There is no pool where we are all putting money into, for the feds to take money out to pay for solar. The only way you get the 30% tax credit is if you paid enough taxes in the year to get some money out of your own paid taxes back. You need to have paid enough in taxes to get a fraction of that money back. Individuals that do not pay enough taxes in the year to cover 30% of the solar system cost, do not get back money from any tax pool that all of us put money in. Check with the IRS or your tax accountant about this. You can say that this year my effective tax rate will be lower because of the rebate, but you can't say everyone is paying for my installation. That is just incorrect, the 30% credit came from my own taxed income.

[russ]

, but you can't say everyone is paying for my installation. That is just incorrect, the 30% credit came from my own taxed income.

BS yourself all you want but that is what you are doing - it is money out of the kitty.

[txcas]

BS yourself all you want but that is what you are doing - it is money out of the kitty.

The only BS here are opinions presented as facts, with no supporting data behind them. Again, go back to the IRS or to your tax accountant so you can get educated on the subject you like to moderate.

[russ]

txcas - congratulations! You just won a time out -

[SunEagle]

The statement that the Fed money comes from a pool is incorrect. There is no pool where we are all putting money into, for the feds to take money out to pay for solar. The only way you get the 30% tax credit is if you paid enough taxes in the year to get some money out of your own paid taxes back. You need to have paid enough in taxes to get a fraction of that money back. Individuals that do not pay enough taxes in the year to cover 30% of the solar system cost, do not get back money from any tax pool that all of us put money in. Check with the IRS or your tax accountant about this. You can say that this year my effective tax rate will be lower because of the rebate, but you can't say everyone is paying for my installation. That is just incorrect, the 30% credit came from my own taxed income.

While you feel that 100% of the money you got back for your solar rebate comes only out of the Taxes you paid in then you would have to also agree that what you paid in Taxes will cover all of the services the government supplies only for you. So when your Tax money runs out then the government stops supplying those services to you. Which is not correct.

Taxes are paid by everyone which goes into a "pool" to cover all of the government expenses. Some of that (like the solar rebate) comes back to the people that put it in but most of your Taxes goes to places and people that do not contribute to the "pool".

I understand your point of view but in reality a little of everyone's paid taxes goes back out as solar rebates.

[Sunking]

While you feel that 100% of the money you got back for your solar rebate comes only out of the Taxes you paid in then you would have to also agree that what you paid in Taxes will cover all of the services the government supplies only for you. So when your Tax money runs out then the government stops supplying those services to you. Which is not correct.

Taxes are paid by everyone which goes into a "pool" to cover all of the government expenses. Some of that (like the solar rebate) comes back to the people that put it in but most of your Taxes goes to places and people that do not contribute to the "pool".

I understand your point of view but in reality a little of everyone's paid taxes goes back out as solar rebates.

Same as those rebates offered by rate payers. Its all a big scam about to come to an end in the USA. Well except the LEFT COAST.

[txcas]

While you feel that 100% of the money you got back for your solar rebate comes only out of the Taxes you paid in then you would have to also agree that what you paid in Taxes will cover all of the services the government supplies only for you. So when your Tax money runs out then the government stops supplying those services to you. Which is not correct.

Taxes are paid by everyone which goes into a "pool" to cover all of the government expenses. Some of that (like the solar rebate) comes back to the people that put it in but most of your Taxes goes to places and people that do not contribute to the "pool".

I understand your point of view but in reality a little of everyone's paid taxes goes back out as solar rebates.

SunEagle that is great analogy, but you can’t compare corporate accounting with government accounting. When the Oncor corporation ran out of the budgeted money for their 2014 solar rebate program, they stopped paying rebates and started putting people on the 2015 rebate program waiting list. That is a fact. When the government runs out of budget money to pay for a service, they can’t stop providing the service. Imaging what would happen if the Federal Government stopped paying for welfare, unemployment, homeland security, disaster recovery, health care for the uninsured, etc., when the money that was budgeted for these things ran out? They can’t stop providing some services. How do you think this country racked up $18 trillion in debt? Check http://www.usdebtclock.org/, there you can see how we have a budget for many things, but without getting into politics, the reality is the government spends more than it generates in revenue. That is the difference between corporate accounting and government accounting.

Back to the solar rebates and the federal tax code. There is no bucket in the government budget where all of us are putting money into to pay for the 30% federal tax credit on solar. People that do not work pay no taxes, but they may receive money or other benefits from the government. That is not the case with the individual federal tax credit for solar. If you did not pay taxes or enough taxes, the feds don’t pull money from anywhere to pay 30% of the cost of your solar system. While our tax code is huge and complex, the tax formula is simple. Your tax responsibility to your country starts with a tax estimate based on your income. To that amount you subtract deductions and credits. I know that I am over simplifying things, but stick with me and check these examples:

Individual A
2014 Income $100,000
Tax rate 28% or $28,000 (estimate before deductions or credits)
Buys a $40,000 solar system
Gets $10,000 in corporate rebates (no tax money used)
Net cost on solar system $30,000
30% federal tax credit on solar is $9,000
This individual qualifies for a $9,000 credit because he already paid $28,000 in taxes. The $9,000 tax credit comes from the $28,000 the government already took from his paycheck. That makes his effective tax rate for the year 21%.

Individual B
2014 Income $35,000
Tax rate 15% or $5,250 (estimate before deductions or credits)
Buys the same $40,000 solar system and gets the same $10,000 corporate rebate.
Net cost on solar system $30,000
30% federal tax credit on solar is ____________?
If the federal tax credit on solar came from a general tax pool of funds, individual B would also get $9,000 in tax credits. That would mean that all of us would have paid $3,750 for his system this year. In reality that is not the case, individual B only gets $5,250 back. His solar tax credit can’t be more than what he already paid in taxes. Individual B can carry over a $3,750 credit for next year’s tax return, and receive that money if, and only if, he pays enough taxes to cover that amount. That makes his effective tax rate for this year 0%.
Some individuals feel entitled to the $14,250 the government “paid” in solar credits in my examples. I put paid in quotes because the government did not pay anything to individuals A and B. Individuals A and B got back from the taxes the paid, what the federal tax law says they are entitled to. You could argue that the $14,250 in these examples is loss tax income for the government, but it does not mean you and me paid for that money out of our pockets. Right or wrong, that is the law of the land.

Unfortunately in this country some people think that they are entitled to your money. They feel they contributed to a non-existent pool of money that is used to pay for the solar rebate. They see the loss in tax income as something they have to pay for. None of those individuals can show you in their 1040 U.S. Individual Income Tax Return how they paid for your tax credit. They can’t, that information is only in your own 1040. They can argue all day long, but that is all they can do because they have no substance to support their claims. The bottom line is that the 30% individual tax credit established by The Energy Policy Act of 2005 is self-funded and costs nothing to you and me.

Sources:

http://oncor.com/EN/Pages/Incentives.aspx

http://www.irs.gov

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-109publ58/pdf/PLAW-109publ58.pdf

http://energy.gov/savings/residential-renewable-energy-tax-credit

[Tex Willer]

Regarding Oncor in Texas, what is their incentive to subsidize solar systems? In round numbers it looks like the government gives tax rebate upto 1/3 of the system, Oncor pays 1/3 and the owner pay 1/3.

How much you see value in reduction of the peak load during August afternoons and reduced overall load of the grid through distributed generation?

[russ]

The bottom line is that the 30% individual tax credit established by The Energy Policy Act of 2005 is self-funded and costs nothing to you and me.

Now if that isn't progressive thinking I have never heard anything better! Free money! Pure BS to make yourself feel OK?

Nothing wrong with accessing the freebies but to refuse to acknowledge what is going on is a bit silly.

[DDW]

My panels were financed with a one year same as cash offer, and they will be paid off in 11 months. During the summer when the AC will be running, all the energy produced by the panels will be consumed and the savings will be significant, even if I not getting paid for the surplus. After the Oncor rebate, the 30% tax credit, and the SunPower rebate I ended up with a 64% discount on the system and only paid $1.36 per watt. The cherry on top is that 90% of my driving is done on electric power, so I will be "filling up" my car for "free."

Hi TXCAS - I was wondering of you can tell me who you bought your system from? Also, what is a Oncor rebate? Thanks

[txcas]

Hi TXCAS - I was wondering of you can tell me who you bought your system from? Also, what is a Oncor rebate? Thanks

Check your PMs.

[t5800512]

Net Billing in Texas...

I was searching the internet today and found this: "Solar City pushes into Texas - http://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/20150310-solar-panel-provider-to-market-buyback-plan.ece"

It basically says SolarCity (famous for their Solar leasing programs) is the working with MR2 Energy to provide a true Solar Net Buyback plan. I called MP2 Energy (832-510-1030) to inquire about this. I was told that they are only taking SolarCity customers at the time, but in August 2015, they would start taking other solar customers. A quick summary of their plan: They will purchase your excess solar for 10.8 cents per KWH. They will also sell it for the same price, 10.8, wow. There is no contract and the limit 500 KWH limit is gone. Your purchased solar energy will earn a credit that can be carried forward through the winter and expires in May the following year. This seems to be the first Solar Net Buyback plan in Texas. Best I could tell, they will not pay your for you excess Energy, but this is still great news for Texas.

Not wanting to wait until August, I called Green Mountain Energy where I have on a regular market rate plan with no contract. I have been putting my excess onto the grid for free since I could buy Energy as cheep as 5.6 cents per KWH. So I told Green Mountain that I was interested in their Solar Net Buyback plan, and much to my surprise, they have matched the exact terms of what MR2 Energy is offering (available in August). So I signed up with Green Mountain on the spot. It seems that Green Mountain now has a true Solar Net Buyback plan and is in direct competition with the new MR2 Energy Solar plan. Such great news for Texas! I wanted to share this good news with the Forum.

Sunking, it seems that 8.4 cents per KWH is the lowest I could find in texas today. So 10.8 does not seem so bad for a Net Plan. I will add an update if I find any surprises.

[SunEagle]

In other news the sun rose in the east today...

Rebecca from CNBM
........

Rebecca

I hope you aren't using this website looking for customers to purchase items from China Building Materials?

[Vaggeto]

Txu

Hi All,

I'm currently on a Pre-Paid 20 year lease with SolarCity.

I have a 100% electric, large, and not too efficient home with 3 AC/Heater units, a pool, and a 100% Electric Nissan Leaf.

Due to my usage, I actually went with the TXU Free Nights plan which perfectly suits my needs. It costs 14.8cents/kwh in the day, is free and night, and also they buy back electricity at 7.5 cents/kwh.

In the daytime we minimize electricity usage by raising temps and limiting appliance use where practical. In the evening time I charge my car which uses around 12kwh/day and run my pool pump which uses around 23 kwh/day, and I also cool my home more at night and run the dryer and other electronics more.
Although that 14.8 cents sounds high, I'm only paying that for what the solar system cannot generate which is a reasonably low amount.

One of the key factor that made me go with TXU is that fact that they credit you back the Oncor delivery fees for the night time use, making it truly 100% free. With my high night time usage, this was upwards of a $50/month difference in those delivery fees alone. From my research, other providers who participated in free night plans did not also credit you those delivery fees like TXU does.

I've seen the previous bills prior to Solar in this home and this free night plan and they went from $300+ down to $30-$100/month depending on the time of year.

I doubt this plan will last forever but for the time being I'm taking advantage. Just wanted to throw that out there as something to consider since it can complement the Solar strategy so well. (Although it doesn't necessarily help you go green during the free night time usage)