Re buying solar panels/not leasing

[Rdjntx]

Leasing works here in Tx, with an average price of $0.10 per KWH. I'm no expert on the lease model nor am I an expert with other markets, how does our utility rebate of $1.09 per DC watt stand in comparison with other places? All of our customers have purchased their systems but we will be offering a lease option very soon for those customers without the tax liability.

What part of Texas? I live in Round Rock (ONCOR) and got 2.00 per watt from them and .50 per watt from the installer when I installed my system in 2012. I am not a fan of leasing at all but that is just me.

[njguy]

Your opinion summarizes a lot of what others see as unfavorable about leases. Add to that perceived limits on future courses of action and potential problems of a practical nature in a resale. Others see the benefit of avoiding up front lump sum purchases, I'd suspect often, but not always because they lack the resources, or the tools or time to make a more informed judgment. But, opinions vary. There are other, opposite equally valid opinions. Mine is different than theirs. I'd suggest listening to all sides objectively, personally detached and critically before you buy, if only to make sure there's nothing you missed. Finally, doing nothing is also a valid choice. Maybe in 5 yrs. solar will come in cracker jack boxes. Who knows ? In the mean time reduce your usage. It's much more cost effective than any solar at this time.

You're right about doing nothing. That may be the ultimate choice but I am weighing all options. At end of the day it seems I'm leaning between nothing or purchase. So besides my current cost I wonder about how much sun I need on my roof (how many hours) each day (on a sunny day of course). I have heard that as long as you have sun from 9am to 3pm all is good (in the summer). That obviously is a factor. I do get sun during that time but have a tree that shades part of the roof (neighbors property) from about 3:30 to about 5 and then the roof is covered in shade. The solar companies tell me its all good but they obviously could just be saying that to sell me their product (though with the lease and prepay they at least guarantee certain amount of production).

[J.P.M.]

I average .138/kwh in NJ with time of day plan and am looking at Solar and the leases just don't make sense. Barely saving anything. Not sure if it's cost effective yet to go with a lease. Prepay seems interesting but issue there is the system costs just barely less than a purchase but I do not get SRECs so in long run purchase may be the way to go. I like prepay because of no worries (supposed) with a guaranteed system and production rates.

Your opinion summarizes a lot of what others see as unfavorable about leases. Add to that perceived limits on future courses of action and potential problems of a practical nature in a resale. Others see the benefit of avoiding up front lump sum purchases, I'd suspect often, but not always because they lack the resources, or the tools or time to make a more informed judgment. But, opinions vary. There are other, opposite equally valid opinions. Mine is different than theirs. I'd suggest listening to all sides objectively, personally detached and critically before you buy, if only to make sure there's nothing you missed. Finally, doing nothing is also a valid choice. Maybe in 5 yrs. solar will come in cracker jack boxes. Who knows ? In the mean time reduce your usage. It's much more cost effective than any solar at this time.

[njguy]

I average .138/kwh in NJ with time of day plan and am looking at Solar and the leases just don't make sense. Barely saving anything. Not sure if it's cost effective yet to go with a lease. Prepay seems interesting but issue there is the system costs just barely less than a purchase but I do not get SRECs so in long run purchase may be the way to go. I like prepay because of no worries (supposed) with a guaranteed system and production rates.

[VinLis]

Free Estimate

Correct I have no skin in that game.
I say this only because in Massachussets the sunpower financing is rapidly taking over as the no money down option of choice as far as market share goes. Sunpower is increasing market share and Solar City is losing market share at a very large rate.

Mod note - Forget advertising or looking for suckers on the site - next time you are banned. Participate if you wish.

[TxSolarPro]

Leasing works here in Tx, with an average price of $0.10 per KWH. I'm no expert on the lease model nor am I an expert with other markets, how does our utility rebate of $1.09 per DC watt stand in comparison with other places? All of our customers have purchased their systems but we will be offering a lease option very soon for those customers without the tax liability.

[josh26757]

I think that one of the reasons we hear so much negative talk about leasing vs outright purchase of a solar system is the very fact that it is very much dependent on where you live and how much you pay on average for your current power. In states where the cost is less than about .15 per kwh it is hard to make a lease work. but for many who would not otherwise even consider solar and live where there current power costs are much higher it can be a good deal. Who does not want to save money if they can with little or no money out of pocket ?

Yep, saving money for nothing is the same a getting money for nothing. Another good point.

[wanabefree]

All the sales pitches I've seen for monthly leasing show a savings (lease + new electric bill) over the old electric bill. The actual amount will vary depending on a myriad of factors. In that case you are ahead of the game from day one. The total savings over 20 years may ultimately be far less than if you purchased but then, you're not tying up a large chunk of money upfront. There are other drawbacks to leasing in particular the 20 year payment commitment but saving money from the outset without any out of pocket is a big plus IMHO. One of the things you may not be considering is that the lessor gets an additional tax break through accelerated depreciation that the individual homeowner is not eligible for. Some of that may be passed on to the lessee. In my case, a LOT of it must have been passed on since my prepaid Sunpower lease cost was under $1/watt. I bet Sunpower wishes they hadn't been quite so generous.

I think that one of the reasons we hear so much negative talk about leasing vs outright purchase of a solar system is the very fact that it is very much dependent on where you live and how much you pay on average for your current power. In states where the cost is less than about .15 per kwh it is hard to make a lease work. but for many who would not otherwise even consider solar and live where there current power costs are much higher it can be a good deal. Who does not want to save money if they can with little or no money out of pocket ?

[Ian S]

Now that makes since. It was a big loss for me to pay the out of pocket expenses as well, so I fully understand the benefit there. The price of electric here is a lot cheaper than I have seen (0.0944 per KW). You also stated that depreciation could also be split with the installer and that does change the field a bit. There is not much of a market here and I am sure that affects prices. There was little savings to be made with leasing, but I guess where prices are higher it would make sense for everyone to jump on board. I also had to wait a couple years to build the money up and in that time you would have already been saving. Point taken...thank you!

At $0.09/kWh, it's hard to make solar really pay. You need huge incentives. The fact that SolarCity doesn't include WV in its list of states shows that leasing probably won't work there.

[josh26757]

All the sales pitches I've seen for monthly leasing show a savings (lease + new electric bill) over the old electric bill. The actual amount will vary depending on a myriad of factors. In that case you are ahead of the game from day one. The total savings over 20 years may ultimately be far less than if you purchased but then, you're not tying up a large chunk of money upfront. There are other drawbacks to leasing in particular the 20 year payment commitment but saving money from the outset without any out of pocket is a big plus IMHO. One of the things you may not be considering is that the lessor gets an additional tax break through accelerated depreciation that the individual homeowner is not eligible for. Some of that may be passed on to the lessee. In my case, a LOT of it must have been passed on since my prepaid Sunpower lease cost was under $1/watt. I bet Sunpower wishes they hadn't been quite so generous.

Now that makes since. It was a big loss for me to pay the out of pocket expenses as well, so I fully understand the benefit there. The price of electric here is a lot cheaper than I have seen (0.0944 per KW). You also stated that depreciation could also be split with the installer and that does change the field a bit. There is not much of a market here and I am sure that affects prices. There was little savings to be made with leasing, but I guess where prices are higher it would make sense for everyone to jump on board. I also had to wait a couple years to build the money up and in that time you would have already been saving. Point taken...thank you!

[Ian S]

My point is the actual savings. What is the payment for a lease compared to the price of electric? What is the savings each month? I was trying to understand the price per month and the reduction in initial cost to a purchased system's payback period. Is there actually a hidden advantage that I failed to consider? Again, nothing negative here just trying to probe for more information.

All the sales pitches I've seen for monthly leasing show a savings (lease + new electric bill) over the old electric bill. The actual amount will vary depending on a myriad of factors. In that case you are ahead of the game from day one. The total savings over 20 years may ultimately be far less than if you purchased but then, you're not tying up a large chunk of money upfront. There are other drawbacks to leasing in particular the 20 year payment commitment but saving money from the outset without any out of pocket is a big plus IMHO. One of the things you may not be considering is that the lessor gets an additional tax break through accelerated depreciation that the individual homeowner is not eligible for. Some of that may be passed on to the lessee. In my case, a LOT of it must have been passed on since my prepaid Sunpower lease cost was under $1/watt. I bet Sunpower wishes they hadn't been quite so generous.

[J.P.M.]

Agree, if it still saves money and buying the entire system is not an option then I totally agree; however, my intended question was, is there a situation elsewhere that this actually has a bottom line benefit? I was not suggesting anything "ill considered", but was just asking.....sheeesh!

One answer to your question is: If the user thinks there is a bottom line benefit --->> there is - regardless of what others may think. See rule # 1.

[josh26757]

I don't understand your point. A monthly lease has no payback period - you start out ahead of the game. A prepaid lease can be significantly less than purchase even after incentives. It all depends on your individual circumstances and what's available in your area.

My point is the actual savings. What is the payment for a lease compared to the price of electric? What is the savings each month? I was trying to understand the price per month and the reduction in initial cost to a purchased system's payback period. Is there actually a hidden advantage that I failed to consider? Again, nothing negative here just trying to probe for more information.

[josh26757]

Josh : You may indeed be missing something. Every situation is not like yours. Pay your money - take your choice. Rule # 1: It's a free country and that includes being free to make decisions others think ill considered.

Agree, if it still saves money and buying the entire system is not an option then I totally agree; however, my intended question was, is there a situation elsewhere that this actually has a bottom line benefit? I was not suggesting anything "ill considered", but was just asking.....sheeesh!

[J.P.M.]

I really don't understand why leasing seems so popular. I can see not everyone has $15,000 to shell out, but the money lost by leasing is extremely high here and I will almost guarantee it is the same everywhere. The only incentive I got was federal, no state for property benefits. I called an installer for my system just to check pricing and they wanted $30,000 for a system half the size of mine. The payback time would have been around 15 years compared to my 5. Is there something I am missing here?

Josh : You may indeed be missing something. Every situation is not like yours. Pay your money - take your choice. Rule # 1: It's a free country and that includes being free to make decisions others think ill considered.