Re buying solar panels/not leasing

[Ian S]

I really don't understand why leasing seems so popular. I can see not everyone has $15,000 to shell out, but the money lost by leasing is extremely high here and I will almost guarantee it is the same everywhere. The only incentive I got was federal, no state for property benefits. I called an installer for my system just to check pricing and they wanted $30,000 for a system half the size of mine. The payback time would have been around 15 years compared to my 5. Is there something I am missing here?

I don't understand your point. A monthly lease has no payback period - you start out ahead of the game. A prepaid lease can be significantly less than purchase even after incentives. It all depends on your individual circumstances and what's available in your area.

[josh26757]

Ian gave you an excellent analysis of the situation - much depends on your financial situation and outlook. Some of us prefer only to but while others prefer the lease route.

Here in Turkey where we have no incentives and duty added none make economic sense unfortunately.

Keep in mind - the very best cheap power available is through conservation. Sealing the home and other steps can save many kW much cheaper than any panel on the roof.

I really don't understand why leasing seems so popular. I can see not everyone has $15,000 to shell out, but the money lost by leasing is extremely high here and I will almost guarantee it is the same everywhere. The only incentive I got was federal, no state for property benefits. I called an installer for my system just to check pricing and they wanted $30,000 for a system half the size of mine. The payback time would have been around 15 years compared to my 5. Is there something I am missing here?

[TJBOB]

I finely sign a pre paid lease today with trinity solar ( sunrun) upfront payment 9,777.02 with tax, 20 year lease no monthly payments, (20/25year guarantee on everything) $2060.00 REBAIT property tax credit (over 4 years $515.00 a year) tax paid refund $421.02, approx $1600/1700 a year savings on con-ed elec bill= after 4 to 41/2years to brake even (I think I hope) did I do the rite thing.

[DanS26]

Social Security benefits are not normally taxable unless the recipient has other income that pushes the total above a certain level. Then there's a calculation to be made to determine how much of the SS benefits are subject to tax. The 30% tax credit for solar is non-refundable i.e. you have to have a tax obligation to make use of it. If someone had limited SS income but significant amounts in conventional IRA's, I suppose one could convert some portion of the IRA to a Roth IRA and use the solar tax credit to offset the cost of conversion. Best to talk to a tax adviser to see what the best options might be.

I've used this tax strategy three years running, works wonderfully. Tax credits will carry over to subsequent tax years, but remember the party is over by the end of 2016.

[Naptown]

Yes, but there are a few folks who have little in the way of taxable income but significant financial assets. In other words, they may have the financial ability to purchase a solar system but insufficient taxable income to make full use of the tax credits.

And this situation is where a prepaid lease is a perfect fit.

[Ian S]

Yes your results may vary. Retirement isn't the issue, low income is. Solar big enough to do anything isn't cheap. Bruce Roe

Yes, but there are a few folks who have little in the way of taxable income but significant financial assets. In other words, they may have the financial ability to purchase a solar system but insufficient taxable income to make full use of the tax credits.

[bcroe]

Social Security benefits are not normally taxable unless the recipient has other income that pushes the total above a certain level. Then there's a calculation to be made to determine how much of the SS benefits are subject to tax. The 30% tax credit for solar is non-refundable i.e. you have to have a tax obligation to make use of it. If someone had limited SS income but significant amounts in conventional IRA's, I suppose one could convert some portion of the IRA to a Roth IRA and use the solar tax credit to offset the cost of conversion. Best to talk to a tax adviser to see what the best options might be.

Yes your results may vary. Retirement isn't the issue, low income is. Solar big enough to do anything isn't cheap. Bruce Roe

[Ian S]

In USA MOST of those
who retired are eligible for Social Security (taxable), and/or some have pensions and other sources.

Social Security benefits are not normally taxable unless the recipient has other income that pushes the total above a certain level. Then there's a calculation to be made to determine how much of the SS benefits are subject to tax. The 30% tax credit for solar is non-refundable i.e. you have to have a tax obligation to make use of it. If someone had limited SS income but significant amounts in conventional IRA's, I suppose one could convert some portion of the IRA to a Roth IRA and use the solar tax credit to offset the cost of conversion. Best to talk to a tax adviser to see what the best options might be.

[bcroe]

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND you can't get tax refund if you don't pay taxs? (WHICH I DO NOT BECAUSE I AM RETIRED AN DO NOT HAVE TAXABLE INCOME ( i hope i am wrong if i am then i will be able to get some typ of refund) did youy pay any taxs for the year you are fileing for? PLEASE GET BACK TO ME BECAUSE YOUR ANSWER CAN BE VERY HELPFULL TO ME.

The payment from my state is outright cash (probably taxable as income later). In USA MOST of those
who retired are eligible for Social Security (taxable), and/or some have pensions and other sources. If
the tax is small, the remainder of a partial rebate can be carried over to later years, assuming the
Federal program is still funded then. Your results may vary. Bruce (retired) Roe

[TJBOB]

Why do you need to be working, to receive all tax credits. I'm collecting my Fed and State tax credits this year.
Bruce Roe

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND you cant get tax refund if you dont pay taxs? ( WITCH I DO NOT BECAUSE I AM RETIERED AN DO NOT HAVE TAXABLE INCOME ( i hope i am wrong if i am then i will be able to get some typ of refund) did youy pay any taxs for the year you are fileing for?PLEASE GET BACK TO ME BECAUSE YOUR AWNSER CAN BE VERY HELPFULL TO ME.

[bcroe]

Working?

we both had the same interests of installing solar panels, I am going for the prepaid and he said he was going to buy outright (because he is still working and can receive all tax credits)

Why do you need to be working, to receive all tax credits. I'm collecting my Fed and State tax credits this year.
Bruce Roe

[Naptown]

in my search for different prepaid deals I ran across a co. called NRG solar witch is a little lower price then other co. has any body heard of them or dealt with them? if so how are they to deal with?

I have done two leased systems through NRG.
Both were a nightmare with endless delays getting them approved by NRG

[TJBOB]

in my search for different prepaid deals I ran across a co. called NRG solar witch is a little lower price then other co. has any body heard of them or dealt with them? if so how are they to deal with?

[Mr. Vegas]

ive done a lot of reading, and thinking of going with prepaid (????) with SUNRUN who uses TRINITY SOLER to install the panels ( i live in the NYC area) has any one used them? and were you happy with them?SYSTEM size 5.500 22 trina panels 250s black frame PV powerd (my cost $9,841 after SUNRUN takes all tax creadit and rebaits) it cost me about $1700.00 a year to con-ed) it could take 6 years to brake even? any input would HELP

Signed a 10kw lease contract with Trinity on Jan 9th. Same equipment, 42 Trina 250w panels + 3 PV powered inverters. So far process has been very smooth. I don't work for Trinity nor have any affiliation with them. Just ended up picking them after researching about 4 other companies, getting quotes and comparing. Just finished sending in notarized buildings department permit application to architect. I estimate panels should be on roof by late April, early May. I picked Trinity not just on price, but their local installation is done out of Bellmore, LI and since I'm on the Island I wanted a local installer instead of people driving in from Mid-Jersey if I had a problem.

[Ian S]

I meet an old friend at a wedding this week end, we both had the same interests of installing solar panels, I am going for the prepaid and he said he was going to buy outright (because he is still working and can receive all tax credits) I mentioned that mine would guaranteed and serviced by the co. he told me that his would have the same guarantee as I am getting? The way I understood it if you buy outright you are on your own? Does some one know what he said is true? We both live in the New York City area

The various parts of the purchased system will all come with warranties of varying lengths and different manufacturers. The installer may also offer a warranty covering various things for some amount of time. Getting warranty satisfaction with a purchased system may require you to deal with several different entities each of whom if possible will try to blame some other component in the system for whatever failure there is. With the lease, prepaid or monthly, you will only deal with a single entity, the lessor, for warranty issues. That said, these systems are pretty reliable with about the only component likely to fail within the 20 year lease being the string inverter - and you can protect against that with an extended warranty. Opinions vary on the reliability of the microinverters but I think it says something that Enphase no longer provides labor for removal/installation of a failed microinverter. FWIW, I wouldn't place a lot of value on any difference between the lease warranty and the warranty for a purchased system. I suppose it is nice to only deal with one outfit for service but the importance of that will vary with individual preference.

One thing with the leased systems is they come with a performance guarantee. Typically, you will never see a dime from that as they are designed to underestimate your actual production. However, I could see where it might serve as a prod to get any system failures taken care of reasonably quickly as the performance guarantee could be triggered if your system is down for any length of time.