Don't think solar system is operating as it should

[J.P.M.]

I have been looking online for new panels and it looks like there are few very popular brands. What would any of you suggest as far as good for price and quality? Also, would you suggest buying local or from an online retailer and if so which one?

From turning the solar completely off I have noticed that the boiler is not coming on as much.

thanks again for your help
Scott

Not surprised at lower boiler operating time. The system is in need of a lot of revamp. Don't buy anything until the whole system is checked out.

I don't recommend anything, but I've had Sunearth panels w/selective surface for 6+ yrs. w/ no problems and a high solar fraction.

Add: +1 on LucMan's opinion on staying away from evacuated tube panels.

[LucMan]

I agree don't buy anything yet. You will be surprized at what you will get out of your panels once they are piped correctly. The way they are piped now you are only getting maybe 20% of what they are capable of producing.
Are the second set of panels piped in series with the first set?

[FED565]

Yes both sets are setup exactly the same way and there is a single inlet and outlet coming from the room to the water tank so I would assume they are connected in the attic. I need to get up there and really take a look at how they have it setup.

If I were to redo the piping could I run the return line on the outside of the panels as it looks like there is no space inside to do this? I would have it really insulated of course.

I have someone coming over next week to give me an estimate just so I have some idea of what a replacement cost is, but I would like to at least try and get this system going if I can.

I am sure I can get my questions answered here, all of you have been very informative and helpful. Supposed to be nice this weekend so I was going to get back up on the roof and really look at things so I will probably be posting some more pics and questions.

thanks
Scott

[J.P.M.]

I'd respectfully suggest making sure that whoever shows up next week knows more about solar thermal in terms of system piping and controls than whoever did the current barnjob.

[FED565]

I contacted these folks http://www.sunvelope.com/

Looks like they know what they are doing (but who knows) and they are local to me as well. I got a call back from the actual President of the company and he is coming to my house to check out my system next week.

I will post to what his findings are. I am still going to put in some effort into getting what I have to work.

[peakbagger]

I have a set of AET panels that have been running for 10 years, they are well built and show no real evidence that they are 10 years old. As I stated earlier if you do decide to replace seriously consider a couple of PV panels and heat pump hot water heater.

[J.P.M.]

I contacted these folks http://www.sunvelope.com/

Looks like they know what they are doing (but who knows) and they are local to me as well. I got a call back from the actual President of the company and he is coming to my house to check out my system next week.

I will post to what his findings are. I am still going to put in some effort into getting what I have to work.

From their website, they may know something, but I bet they'll be more interested in pushing new equipment. That may be OK, but only if that's what you want. The panels they seem to be pushing/selling are OK, but not top shelf. I'd not be pushed into a hasty decision.

IMO, you'd be money/time/hassle ahead by spending 20 bucks on a solar residential book on thermal systems. Read/study it and you'll probably know more than most peddlers and be better able to make informed choices about renew/updating vs. scrapping what you have, and also get some background/insight into what you've learned here so far.

Also, perhaps contrary to your possible vendor's website info, I'd avoid using "PEX" type piping/fittings. Stay with copper piping/sweated joints. Been around a long time and proven. IMO, "PEX" stuff is inappropriate for most solar thermal applications. Buy cheap, buy twice, or more, especially on piping systems, and particularly insulated piping.

[Amy@altE]

IMO, you'd be money/time/hassle ahead by spending 20 bucks on a solar residential book on thermal systems. Read/study it and you'll probably know more than most peddlers and be better able to make informed choices about renew/updating vs. scrapping what you have, and also get some background/insight into what you've learned here so far.

I highly recommend Bob Ramlow's book. He's my mentor, and the book is terrific. http://www.arthaonline.com/bookpage.html

[FED565]

Hey thanks for the input, and you are correct I really need to educate myself on this subject and my first step was joining this site (I have already learned a lot). I will look into getting more information/educational material.

Also, I am was going to get a few estimates from different vendors just to see what each has to say. I did find a local plumber who is a dealer and installer for Hydrodyne so I was going to contact him as well.

[FED565]

I highly recommend Bob Ramlow's book. He's my mentor, and the book is terrific. http://www.arthaonline.com/bookpage.html

Thank you for that reference I will be ordering the book.

[LucMan]

If I were to redo the piping could I run the return line on the outside of the panels as it looks like there is no space inside to do this? I would have it really insulated of course.

I have someone coming over next week to give me an estimate just so I have some idea of what a replacement cost is, but I would like to at least try and get this system going if I can.

I am sure I can get my questions answered here, all of you have been very informative and helpful. Supposed to be nice this weekend so I was going to get back up on the roof and really look at things so I will probably be posting some more pics and questions.

thanks
Scott

Yes you can run the return line on the back of the panels. Just disconnect the existing return from the header, cap and connect to the other side. Pretty easy if you know how to solder. The hard part is refilling & purging the air after reconnecting.

Here in NY a 64 sq ft drain back system with 80 gallon storeage runs around $15k installed before rebates & tax credits etc.

Don't believe any claims about panels that are freeze resistant down to -20 with water. How long has that manufacturer been in business?

[FED565]

Thanks for the reply, I am just getting an estimate to see what the actual cost is for replacement. I am sure it will not be cheap. The good part of it is I would only need panels and some controls as I have a 120 gallon tank now.

I did end up getting in touch with my plumber who did the install on my water heater and boiler. I explained everything that has been happening and about the piping being wrong so he is coming over soon so we can see how we can re-pipe it and put in some temperature controls for the solar pump. I will keep you updated as I would like to see if I can get this system to work.

[J.P.M.]

Yes you can run the return line on the back of the panels. Just disconnect the existing return from the header, cap and connect to the other side. Pretty easy if you know how to solder. The hard part is refilling & purging the air after reconnecting.

Here in NY a 64 sq ft drain back system with 80 gallon storeage runs around $15k installed before rebates & tax credits etc.

Don't believe any claims about panels that are freeze resistant down to -20 with water. How long has that manufacturer been in business?

I don't doubt your word, but $15K seems kinda' high. In 2008 paid ~$6,500 before tax credit to redo everything on a direct solar DHW system except replace the 80 gal. tank and the diff. controller. New Sunearth coll., new pump, piping, including labor. As I recall, the panels were $864 ea.( 2 X 32 ft.^2, sel. surf.) and the pump was $264 (TACO 008, st. stl.), a couple of decent flow meters, some pressure gages, about a doz. Nibco valves, etc., 3/4" copper piping under 1" thk. Armaflex closed cell insulation, and something like 30 hrs. of labor to my contractor under my direction. I realize direct comparisons are difficult, and I did the engineering, but still.

[LucMan]

I don't doubt your word, but $15K seems kinda' high. In 2008 paid ~$6,500 before tax credit to redo everything on a direct solar DHW system except replace the 80 gal. tank and the diff. controller. New Sunearth coll., new pump, piping, including labor. As I recall, the panels were $864 ea.( 2 X 32 ft.^2, sel. surf.) and the pump was $264 (TACO 008, st. stl.), a couple of decent flow meters, some pressure gages, about a doz. Nibco valves, etc., 3/4" copper piping under 1" thk. Armaflex closed cell insulation, and something like 30 hrs. of labor to my contractor under my direction. I realize direct comparisons are difficult, and I did the engineering, but still.

Now add in a dual coil stainless tank and piping, UV resistant insulation or covering, drainback tank, architectural fees, building permit fees, inspection fees, paper work for the ruling solar energy grant entity, profit & overhead, and mandatory 5 year parts & labor warranty.
Wellcome to NY.

[J.P.M.]

Now add in a dual coil stainless tank and piping, UV resistant insulation or covering, drainback tank, architectural fees, building permit fees, inspection fees, paper work for the ruling solar energy grant entity, profit & overhead, and mandatory 5 year parts & labor warranty.
Wellcome to NY.

I spent most of the first 45 years of my life living/working in upstate NY. I think I understand some of your predicament. Mine was similar. I solved it. You have my sympathies if you want them, especially in the winter.

FWIW, I've found the regulatory, In Loco Parentis attitude to be of about the same intensity and intent in either state. I think the OP's in NV - where, I suspect, they don't regulate too terribly much beyond gambling & prostitution. My post was simply to suggest that a decent, fit for purpose SDHWS doesn't need to cost as much as a small/med. size PV system. $ 6,500 ? - probably not, but $15K ? - probably can be beat in many areas. No insult/argument/ill will intended.