evacuated solar tubes + GE geospring hybrid water heater for radiant floor heat?

[russ]

woops?

That be the one!

[Naptown]

woops?

[russ]

Pick them up before plowing or cultivating and lay them down again after? There are good experiments that show that heated soil gives plants a head start in cold climates. Adding even more fossil fuel use to what goes into fertilizer production.

Most greenhouses will use soil heating cables - I have that back in Izmir. Heating the earth though is a different critter. At the time hydro power from BPA was cheap and plentiful.

The next step was when the state power board, made up of small business men, ordered five reactors - none of which was built due to lack of requirement for the power - seems their power demand curve looked like the infamous hockey stick. Cost them billions in 1970 $ to shut the projects down and Washington went from very cheap power to expensive power.

Small businessmen were playing with the big boys and found out who was smarter.

[inetdog]

I saw brochures where the electric coop in Woodland, WA was trying to get farmers to install hating cables underground in fields - sometime in the 50's.

Pick them up before plowing or cultivating and lay them down again after? There are good experiments that show that heated soil gives plants a head start in cold climates. Adding even more fossil fuel use to what goes into fertilizer production.

[russ]

I saw brochures where the electric coop in Woodland, WA was trying to get farmers to install hating cables underground in fields - sometime in the 50's.

[Naptown]

California home builder of the 1950's, Eichler, went for in-floor radiant for his open-style single story homes. It was very very comfy, and avoided the need for fans, ductwork or registers. It gave you reasonable comfort during a California winter, even with mostly glass single-pane walls in the main rooms.
But it would not be economical with today's energy costs, and the copper coils in concrete started to leak like sieves after a few years. There are better materials to use these days but the fundamental economic problem remains.

So did Aurther Levitt and sons in the 40's and 50's
Same deal with copper and leaks in the floor.

[inetdog]

And since most of you guys are swaying me not to go with radiant heat on my wood flooring due to the install/operating expense, I guess I'll just scratch that off for the mean time.
thanks.

With a wood floor rather than a concrete floor, the thermal mass is a lot lower and you can get a relatively quicker response. But the wood is not as good a thermal conductor, so you may end up heating the space under the floor as much as you heat the floor. You would definitely have to insulate well under the heating elements on the bottom of the floor unless it is a basement or lower floor that you also want to heat anyway.

[SKY888]

thanks for the honest input guys.

I really appreciate it.

Our electric company (national grid) actually pays about 70% for insulation upgrades/air leak fixes.

I'll be paying about $700 for this company to add 7" cellulose insulation and use of spray foam to all the crevices/holes/etc that can be found for air leaks......in my 1000 sq foot attic. I think, I'll have around a total of r-50 after adding the 7" cellulose insulation on top of my current fiberglass insulation on my attic.

hopefully this will help alot for next winter.


And since most of you guys are swaying me not to go with radiant heat on my wood flooring due to the install/operating expense, I guess I'll just scratch that off for the mean time.

thanks.

[LucMan]

The cost to heat a home is dependent on the local climate, the size of the home and the insulation value to keep the BTU's that you pump into the home from escaping outside. Additional insulation should always be your first choice as you only pay for it once, whereas the fuel bill keeps coming as long as you live in the home.
Radiant floor heating is an excellent choice if in concrete because the the floor is the your radiator. Wood floors not so much, insufficient thermal mass. In recent years I have been using old school wall hung steel radiators (Buderus) with great success. They have excellent thermal mass, respond well to outdoor reset water temps, and are less expensive to install than the radiant floor tubing and yet offer the occupants equal comfort. Take a look at them before you go with radiant floor heating, just size them according to the projected water temperatures that you will be using. Lower water temps will of course require a larger radiator.

[inetdog]

I have radiant floor heating and it is comfy for the toes but would I ever do it again? No!

California home builder of the 1950's, Eichler, went for in-floor radiant for his open-style single story homes. It was very very comfy, and avoided the need for fans, ductwork or registers. It gave you reasonable comfort during a California winter, even with mostly glass single-pane walls in the main rooms.
But it would not be economical with today's energy costs, and the copper coils in concrete started to leak like sieves after a few years. There are better materials to use these days but the fundamental economic problem remains.

[russ]

For in floor radiant you really need the thermal mass to go along with it. My floors are concrete and fine for that purpose.

[SKY888]

yes, I think putting infloor heat on set-backs is not ideal. You just need to leave it on the whole time and keep it stable.


During winter we just keep our central force air temp at 64 degrees, and turn on an additional infrared space heater when we are at the living room, or at master bedroom. This combo is the most economical for us.
Wood floor at the living room and ceramic tiles in the kitchen are freezing tho...lol.

If I remove the infrared space heaters.....and just bring up the temp of central forced air to 68-70, the propane bill just skyrockets big time.

That's why I was thinking of a ways to heat the first floor and make it comfy, without a huge installation cost and operational cost.

[russ]

even with ASHP, your radiant floor is still expensive to run, huh?

how big is the space and do you mind sharing how much it cost during the winter season?


thanks

In floor radiant you don't turn on and off - once it goes on in the fall it stays on. You can't make rapid adjustments in temp with in floor - up or down.

How big is of no consequence as we only heat part of the 6,000 ft2 area though 3 floor have infloor radiant and four have fan coils.

The fan coils are of far more use than the in floor radiant.

Cost - relates to nothing as we keep most of the house quite cool.

[SKY888]

even with ASHP, your radiant floor is still expensive to run, huh?

how big is the space and do you mind sharing how much it cost during the winter season?


thanks

[russ]

ASHP - air source heat pump - air to water