My first project, With a few pics

[J.P.M.]

It may be useful for you to read about Trombe Walls. http://sustainabilityworkshop.autode...ached-sunspace and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombe_wall, They were big many years ago, but fell out of favor. Maybe your wife would let you disguise a trombe wall as a bar or something.

I'm not sure Trombe walls fell out of favor (if they were ever in favor) as much as people discovered/figured out that thermal mass didn't need to be placed directly against a window, thus blocking the view to be effective - as in, among other tricks, putting the heavy stuff in the sun and make that stuff as dark in color as possible, and letting the lightweight stuff be light in color to bounce the sun around until it hits something dark (and heavy). Lots of other tricks/considerations helped some folks realize that Trombe walls are little more than a specialized and somewhat limited (and limiting) use of thermal mass.

I had thermal storage in a sunspace I added to an existing dwelling in the early '80's. it consisted of the Kalwall fiberglass cylinders (18" dia. X ~ 10 ft high) containing black dyed H2O against the back wall of the space were it got close to max. solar exposure - somewhat less biased to morning sun for slightly more afternoon storage potential. There was a black curtain directly in front of the cylinders that could be raised/lowered via a thermostat w/ a manual override for partial exposure of the H2O or as wanted/needed. The curtain was usually down in the A.M. and went up if/when the ambient temp. in the sunspace reached ~ +80 F. or so if/when the sun was shining, which was about 60 useful hrs./month during Buffalo, NY winters. I estimate I got most or more of the storage and temp. mod. benefits of a Trombe wall and still got to use the space as more than a dark room with a warm monolith on the south wall (warm on sunny afternoons/evenings anyway, but I'd speculate colder than a welldigger's ass on winter mornings).

[Amy@altE]

And next we can start talking about phase change materials : ) http://earthtechling.com/2013/04/nif...nd-the-corner/

[sensij]

And next we can start talking about phase change materials : ) http://earthtechling.com/2013/04/nif...nd-the-corner/

Actually, we've already covered that one, at least with respect to a freezer application Making walls out of the stuff is definitely new to me.

[J.P.M.]

And next we can start talking about phase change materials : ) http://earthtechling.com/2013/04/nif...nd-the-corner/

Pretty specialized for residential applications. Probably better suited to large commercial or district heating applications, etc. Usually the complexity, hassle and attention needed for phase change materials does not scale well for residential applications. But, it's a free country with lots of possibilities for those with time, money and curiosity to relearn what's already been discovered. I think Dr. Telkes and others covered most of the pertinent details as they may apply to residential and other applications some time ago. I am of the opinion this is not the appropriate forum to discuss that subject.

[green]

...But, it's a free country with lots of possibilities for those with time, money and curiosity to relearn what's already been discovered...

Yes that would be me. I like to research a subject and then try it out for myself on a small scale first. It's a hobby for me. It's not enough for me to just read about something, I'm the type of person that needs to see it in action.

[J.P.M.]

Yes that would be me. I like to research a subject and then try it out for myself on a small scale first. It's a hobby for me. It's not enough for me to just read about something, I'm the type of person that needs to see it in action.

Me too. However, I also tried to learn from the mistakes of others once I figured out I'd never live long enough to make all of the same mistakes myself. Enjoy the ride and the learning experience. Hope you have as much fun as I continue to have.

[J.P.M.]

Actually, we've already covered that one, at least with respect to a freezer application Making walls out of the stuff is definitely new to me.

In a narrow technical sense with respect to water and its latent heat of fusion you are correct.

However, in the context of how the subject of phase change materials was mentioned in this thread, phase change materials, including early experiments with Glauber's salts and other substances and their applications to energy storage technologies are pretty much a completely different subject unrelated to the freeze/thaw cycle of water and an entirely different and rather involved subject, which is most of the reason I suggested it may not be an appropriate topic for this forum format.

[sensij]

In a narrow technical sense with respect to water and its latent heat of fusion you are correct.

However, in the context of how the subject of phase change materials was mentioned in this thread, phase change materials, including early experiments with Glauber's salts and other substances and their applications to energy storage technologies are pretty much a completely different subject unrelated to the freeze/thaw cycle of water and an entirely different and rather involved subject, which is most of the reason I suggested it may not be an appropriate topic for this forum format.

Although you may see the use of latent heat to store energy in a freezer as unrelated to using latent heat to store energy in a room, I assure you, not everyone agrees. I am of the opinion that this is a more appropriate topic of discussion than many others that have found a home in this forum, and am as appreciative of Amy's link as I am of the stories you've shared about your own attempts to use sensible heat in a way that reduces the need for energy consumption to achieve a thermally comfortable residential environment.

Paraffin based phase change materials used in Amy's link have some trade-offs with respect to the salt hydrates you've mentioned, but given the continued research into both types of materials and the variations of them, I would not agree that all of the pertinent details of the application of these materials has been worked out some time ago.

[Craigwell]

I am very thankful I found this forum.

I realize there are others out there - but I have to budget my time around:

- Owning and maintaining a 60 year old house
- Raising a 10 month old
- Wedding this Summer
- Full Time employment (when not on parental leave for a couple months, as I am currently)
- Fixing and maintaining a home for an elder relative.
- Other hobbies and interests,
- ..and god forbid, quality time with the wife and her projects.


... so thanks again to those of you who contribute regularly, and in depth. I have much to learn, but I am determined to make gradual progress toward my goal to get my house as close as possible to off the grid.

I'm only on a 1/4 acre in a suburban setting, but the qualities of my property are unique. Forrested sector, Private Road, River on one boundary of my property, in a Valley with lots of southern exposure, all the room I need and neighbours amenable to my tinkering, chainsaw repairs, 4 wheeler snow plowing, and otherwise a lack of "covenants" limiting what I do.

As I make my way through these threads, I am learning a lot, and will continue to share my results.

From today:

As for my wood framed box:

Soon I will need to concern myself with internal temps.

The outer surface of the wood is painted white, and clad with white steel trims.

The interior is painted with an acrylic flat black paint.

I had been thinking I might fab up a cover to minimize internal temps during the period of say, May to Septemer (Halifax, NS Canada).

heater1.jpg

[Craigwell]

Also note I was holding my son, and he became fidgety by the time I reached 40 on the Anemometer LOL.

[DennisK]

J.p.m.

[J.P.M.]

J.p.m.

You rang ?

[JamesVorn]

Very impressive work i must say. You have done a great job. This is your first project but very well done. Keep it up.

[SunDollar]

Some of the Work We Have Done W/ Pics

We have done a variety of different jobs. Here are a pictures to view so that you can decide where you want your solar panels!

MOD NOTE: Please do not attach links to your solar business without first getting permission from our Admin.

[Craigwell]

I'm hoping to get some more built, utilizing a different internal design than my first attempt.

I feel like I did well by inadvertently creating an air "trap" with my 30~ feet of ducting, so that I don't suffer reverse airflow at night or in cool conditions.

I've been following the progress of others with passive air heaters, and am inspired to try an internal design that incorporates an "air trap" and that doesn't require electric fans to push air.

Morris Dovey's work is something that I've been reading about in that regard. Some interesting reading on it here: http://www.iedu.com/Solar/Panels/

(Note to admin, there is no business component to that link, just thorough description of procedures followed)

I have more research to carry out on that approach - but I'm excited about the potential. As a Carpenter who does a lot of glazing / commercial glass, I have an ample supply of glass for these boxes, which seems to me the single greatest cost. I don't plan on using double walled polycarbonate, UV treated or not. Hoping that doesn't have an effect on results.

Research I've looked at on glass seems to suggest that about 4-6mm of clear plate seems to be considered the best.

The first unit I built, described in my earlier post was built using a double glazed sealed unit, 4mm lites, clear. It may not have been the most efficient choice.