Outdoor Lighting Powered by Solar Problems, Need Troubleshooting Help Please.

[themachinist]

Hey everyone, I'm new here and new at solar so bare with my vocabulary. . My setup goes as follows.

1. Sunforce 50022 5-Watt Solar Battery Trickle Charger
2. Power Bright PW400-12 Power Inverter 400 Watt 12 Volt DC To 110 Volt AC
3. 12V 22Ah Replacement for APC SU3000RM SU3000RMNET UPS Battery - UB12220
4. Trinity Lighting Post Light Sensor Model #: 6780-02B

Ok, so this has been a summer project basically working on it when I can. I bought this stuff and hooked it all up in August. I just now got around to getting my post lights and connected everything together today. Ok so in August, solar panel mounted, wires to battery. From battery pos and neg to input of inverter. Battery came with some charge so I tested it soon after with my cell phone charger and it worked. So it has sit like that since August hooked up. So today I hook up my lights and I get everything wired up, turn my inverter on, and put my finger over photo sensor so lights would come on and blah...nothing. Got my volt meter out and the battery read .5 volt. Disconnected solar panel and checked it and it was putting out 19.5V. While panel unhooked checked battery again and it read .2V. Hooked panel back up and checked battery again... its .5V. So, then I unhooked pos wire from inverter and checked battery again, it read .6V and was climbing. Within a matter of minutes, I had almost 3V. Connected positive wire back to inverter and immediately checked battery, it was back at .5V. Disconnected again, and battery read 3V and climbing. So, my inverter is preventing my battery from charging??!! Is it backfeeding or ......?? I'm so confused. All the reading and research I done before I even started told me anything less than 15 watts, I don't need a charge controller. This panel is a 5 watt trickle charger. Maybe the inverter is junk...?!? Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated, Thank You.

[Beanyboy57]

I had almost 3V. Connected positive wire back to inverter and immediately checked battery, it was back at .5V. Disconnected again, and battery read 3V and climbing. So, my inverter is preventing my battery from charging??!! Is it backfeeding or ......?? I'm so confused. All the reading and research I done before I even started told me anything less than 15 watts, I don't need a charge controller. This panel is a 5 watt trickle charger. Maybe the inverter is junk...?!? Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated, Thank You.

Hi
just wondering what is the open circuit voltage of your battery?
Inverters have a low voltage cut off point so if your battery voltage is below that point then the inverter is not going to draw any power from that battery. I think your model cuts out at 10.5V.

[themachinist]

Hi, I understand what you're saying and you're right. Panel---battery---inverter---lights. My battery was dead, so I didn't expect it to do anything. But my battery has been connected to the solar panel and inverter for 2 months with the inverter off and no lights. The battery should have been fully charged. With the inverter connected to the battery, the panel will not charge it. When I disconnect the inverter, the battery starts charging, see what I'm saying? The inverter comes after the battery, so why is the inverter affecting the battery backwards? Its almost like the inverter is shorted or something and backfeeding something to the battery preventing it from charging. I'm no expert when it comes to electricity but no fool either. This makes no sense to me.

[Beanyboy57]

Hi, I understand what you're saying and you're right. Panel---battery---inverter---lights. My battery was dead, so I didn't expect it to do anything. But my battery has been connected to the solar panel and inverter for 2 months with the inverter off and no lights. The battery should have been fully charged. With the inverter connected to the battery, the panel will not charge it. When I disconnect the inverter, the battery starts charging, see what I'm saying? The inverter comes after the battery, so why is the inverter affecting the battery backwards? Its almost like the inverter is shorted or something and backfeeding something to the battery preventing it from charging. I'm no expert when it comes to electricity but no fool either. This makes no sense to me.

Inverters will still draw power from your battery even if they are off. Maybe it is drawing more power than your trickle charger can supply.
I would still check the open circuit voltage of you battery to see if it is damaged or if if can reach its full charge (somewhere around 12.8V).
Isolate one problem at time.

[Sunking]

Disconnect the battery and measure the voltage. If charged up it should read at least 12.6 volts. If below 10 volts the battery is a boat anchor.

Secondly a 5 watt charger will not be able to keep up with a 22 AH battery. Assuming a 50% DOD on the battery it would take a 2 weeks or longer to charge the battery. Last point a 22 AH battery can only support about a 100 watt inverter.

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Running the panel without a charge controller has overcharged the sealed battery and destroyed it.

WWW

[themachinist]

The battery went from. 5V to 3V in less than 5 minutes. I'm only going to be running 2 13W bulbs for 8 hours or so. By my math the battery should be more than enough for that. If my setup is all wrong then so be it lol. Could anyone tell me what I need to run 2 bulbs from dusk til dawn? Suggestions on different panel, inverter, or battery?

[themachinist]

The panel has built in protection for that...!?

[Sunking]

The battery went from. 5V to 3V in less than 5 minutes.

Less than 10 volts = DESTROYED BATTERY a Boat Anchor. You are wasting your and out time with this. Your system is not capable of doing what you want.

You need a minimum:

120 watt solar panel
10 Amp PWM Charge Controller
12 volt 100 AH battery.

Go get it.

[inetdog]

The panel has built in protection for that...!?

Protection for what? The panel has a current limit which is based on the amount of light that hits it. It may or may not (most likely not) have a series blocking diode to prevent the battery from discharging back into the panel at night (although that should be a relatively small current anyway).

There have been cases in which the + and - leads of the panels were mis-marked, so are you trying to charge your battery in reverse?

Once the open circuit voltage of a lead acid battery gets less than 10 volts for a 12 volt battery and stays there for awhile (and for sure when it gets less than 1 volt!!!!) it has been destroyed, as Sunking stated, and any further experiments with it are perhaps interesting but ultimately fruitless.

If the voltage has gone down to 6 volts, there is a good chance that one or more of the cells in the battery have been reversed, leading to even more damage. Or that there are internal short-circuits in one or more cells. Did you start with a new battery? Or a used one in unknown condition?

[themachinist]

Sunking that sounds like overkill for 2 bulbs 8 hours a day. Hell would be cheaper just to run a wire and power them ac. Inetdog, the panel does have the diode built in. That's why I bought 3 of them. Found them on clearance at Lowe's dirt cheap. Maybe I'm not being clear about wats happening here. When I checked the battery with everything hooked up it read. 5v. The solar panel has a plug so impossible to hook backwards. I used a battery tender cable with same plug. Manual with panel showed me whick lead was pos and neg. I unplugged the connector and the voltage coming out the panel was 19.5v. So its working fine. I connected them back together and then disconnected post wire from inverter and then checked battery and it read. 5v but started to climb as if the panel started charging it when I removed the inverter from the equation. Within 5 minutes the battery had reached 3 volts. So it appears the battery was dead but able to charge. I left it like that and I'm hoping to go home later and check it and see that it has fully recharged. So my question still remains.... what could the inverter be doing to keep my battery from charging.? Thanks for all the responses guys!

[Sunking]

Sunking that sounds like overkill for 2 bulbs 8 hours a day.

Think what you want, I do not care. You asked what is wrong. Not my problem you do not like the answers.

Fact is you use 2 bulbs at 13 watts each for 8 hours per day. That is 2 units x 13 watts x 8 hours = 288 watt hours.

To generate 288 wh of usable power with a cheap pwm controller means your panels need to generate 2 x 288 watt hours = 576 watt hours. Depending on where you live in winter with only 3 sun hours will take a minimum of 588 wh / 3 h = 196 watts.

So no overkill my friend, a 120 watt panel may not be enough to do the job.

You wanted to know what is wrong. You got it. Your chit is way undersized to do what you are asking it to do. Either fix it or give it up. I do not care what you do. It is not my problem.

[Naptown]

Sunking that sounds like overkill for 2 bulbs 8 hours a day. Hell would be cheaper just to run a wire and power them ac. Inetdog, the panel does have the diode built in. That's why I bought 3 of them. Found them on clearance at Lowe's dirt cheap. Maybe I'm not being clear about wats happening here. When I checked the battery with everything hooked up it read. 5v. The solar panel has a plug so impossible to hook backwards. I used a battery tender cable with same plug. Manual with panel showed me whick lead was pos and neg. I unplugged the connector and the voltage coming out the panel was 19.5v. So its working fine. I connected them back together and then disconnected post wire from inverter and then checked battery and it read. 5v but started to climb as if the panel started charging it when I removed the inverter from the equation. Within 5 minutes the battery had reached 3 volts. So it appears the battery was dead but able to charge. I left it like that and I'm hoping to go home later and check it and see that it has fully recharged. So my question still remains.... what could the inverter be doing to keep my battery from charging.? Thanks for all the responses guys!

And that is the correct answer.
By the time you factor in all the equipment, batteries (including replacements) it would be far less costly to run the electric line.
If you have a 12V battery that is at 5V it is history. It is probably so sulphated that it will appear to take a charge but the voltage collapses as soon as any load is placed on it. the inverter in idle mode uses something and generally not much.

[Sunking]

And that is the correct answer.

That is what I want him to discover on his own be he votes tomorrow.

[themachinist]

I don't vote, thanks though . Ok, I get what admin said...sunking...I hear you, honestly I do. But NOBODY has answered my question yet. The chit has been sitting up there connected for 60 fricking days with no load. Why in the blue 40 woohaa is my battery dead. Admin you may be right. The battery did seem to charge, but only when I took the inverter out of the loop. And when I connect the inverter back in, it may drop back down to nada...since someone here said inverters pull a little even when off. If thats the case, then I'm glad its just the battery. But WHY? Bad from the start? Panel Over charge it? Do I need a darn controller for this size of system or not? Zippity Doo Daa Blah!

Ok so Sunk, I'm still calling BS on the panel taking 2 weeks to charge that battery. I mean what the flip is that panel good for if thats the best it can do. Its made for maintaining batteries not charging them from the dead. So If I got a battery big enough that wouldn't die by morning, the 5watter would be fine??!!?? And I'm sure it would help If I would take the "curly ques" flo.bulbs and use led instead. I could cut the voltage by at least 50%. Oh boy, can't wait to see the next reponse. HEhE