LED Lights

[dogsbody]

One of the things that need to be addresse is the need for light. I have already said that we have single LED backup lights upstairs, which just provide enough light to see at night. A new visitor to the house yesterday said he was really impressed as to how little light is needed to walk from A to B. In fact switching on a CFL would be pointless, as by the time it was up to full strength, it would have been switch off again. By the way I have seen that Fluoresecents including CFL have an initial surge of current, and need to be switched on for "23 minutes" to make then cost effective. Is this true?
However I am starting to realise that light required to go from A to B, is very different from light required to find something dropped on the floor between A and B. The problem it seems to me is that maximum light is a given, even though rarely does it need to be that bright. Obviously for activity in the home such as reading or cooking, requires much more light than using a computer or watching TV. So maybe there needs to be a 12 v backup lighting system which provides a continuous low level light and a "mains" system which provides much brighter light on demand

[Sunking]

By the way I have seen that Fluoresecents including CFL have an initial surge of current, and need to be switched on for "23 minutes" to make then cost effective. Is this true?

Complete hogwash. Start up current of 2 X last only for a few milli-seconds. That means less than 1 second.

[Crumb]

One of the things that need to be addresse is the need for light. I have already said that we have single LED backup lights upstairs, which just provide enough light to see at night. A new visitor to the house yesterday said he was really impressed as to how little light is needed to walk from A to B. In fact switching on a CFL would be pointless, as by the time it was up to full strength, it would have been switch off again. By the way I have seen that Fluoresecents including CFL have an initial surge of current, and need to be switched on for "23 minutes" to make then cost effective. Is this true?
However I am starting to realise that light required to go from A to B, is very different from light required to find something dropped on the floor between A and B. The problem it seems to me is that maximum light is a given, even though rarely does it need to be that bright. Obviously for activity in the home such as reading or cooking, requires much more light than using a computer or watching TV. So maybe there needs to be a 12 v backup lighting system which provides a continuous low level light and a "mains" system which provides much brighter light on demand

On a moonless night, with dark adapted eyes, you need very very little light to move around. You can see about 5-10 feet with a bic lighter, which is pretty much nothing. You won't see good detail, or be able to sew a button back on your shirt, but you can place your feet around rocks and branches.

This is also a good idea for a boat at night. Tiny amounts of light can wipe out your night vision, and when you are standing watch this can break stuff and kill people. So you can have enough light to read a chart, or go grab some coffee, but you still have most of your night vision. Granted, I would have the new generation LED's in a warmer CCT and good CRI.

This is where the LED has another advantage. They can be run at much less than their rating, for much less output, and last much longer than what they are rated for, with much less heat. It is all in the datasheets I linked. I was amazed.
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I know a little more about CFL's - The money savings is in long runs with low cycles. On/Off cycles seem to matter more than the industry is willing to admit.

I have a few 12(ish) year old CFL's with many many hours of burntime on them - but only one cycle a day using a timer/photocell. 8 to 12 hours a night constant on for outdoor lighting at night. I would say there is an advantage with that.

[Mike90250]

There are places for both LED, CFL and T-5, T-8 tubes. Each application will be different. For the flood over the sink/stove the LED spot with your favorite color/CRI is very good (and that heatsink is way bigger than 3 watts). The same spot/flood will wash a wall nicely, and you can move around in a room or 2 at night, for 3 watts. But other applications have other bulbs that work best. There is no "One" best replacement, it's going to be application driven, of what your needs are.

[russ]

My comments in bold - Russ

This is also a good idea for a boat at night. Tiny amounts of light can wipe out your night vision, and when you are standing watch this can break stuff and kill people. You generally use a red lamp for this purpose do you not?

This is where the LED has another advantage. They can be run at much less than their rating, for much less output, and last much longer than what they are rated for, with much less heat. It is all in the datasheets I linked. I was amazed. Manufacturers data sheets are always amazing. One has to be pasrt of the team that wrote it to know what they really mean.
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I know a little more about CFL's - The money savings is in long runs with low cycles. On/Off cycles seem to matter more than the industry is willing to admit. The industry points out the effect switching them on and off has - at least if you go to the big boys - bargain bin lamps are not considered. This is true for any florescent lamp.

I have a few 12(ish) year old CFL's with many many hours of burntime on them - but only one cycle a day using a timer/photocell. 8 to 12 hours a night constant on for outdoor lighting at night. I would say there is an advantage with that.

As Mike pointed out, there are many types of lamps for many uses. The old incandescent will even be around (in the US anyways) for a good bit longer.

[dogsbody]

By the way incandescent bulbs were banned in the EU a couple of years ago, for domestic use, so our choice are limited

[Sunking]

By the way incandescent bulbs were banned in the EU a couple of years ago, for domestic use, so our choice are limited

So Big Brother tells you how much money you get and how to spend it huh?.

USA threw UK control under the buss over 200 years ago.

[john p]

The UK is meek and mild (well except for riots) its the other EU countries that wield the big dictatorship stick..

[john p]

incandesant bulbs are virtually now unobtainable in Australia.. Which is not much of a problem. but there is no ban now or it seems any time soon to ban the old style fluro ballasts.. Electronic ballasts are still not as easily obtained from the big box hardware stores.

This was a reason a long time ago Sunking and myself had lots of arguments over the losses with tube fluros.. I assumed USA was like here and where I sometimes am in Philippines and mostly have old magnetic balasts . He assumed the rest of the world was like USA and had electronic ballasts..

What I think should be banned from the whole universe(and other universes) is the super wasteful 50w hallogen MR16s..

[russ]

The US took a different route on the incandescent lamps - The efficiency has to be improved on the most popular sizes. For a table please see -

http://www.americanlightingassoc.com/Lighting-Fundamentals/Light-Sources-Light-Bulbs/New-Incandescent-Light-Bulb-Requirements.aspx

[dogsbody]

Yup, unelected bureaucrats in Brussels tell us what is good for us regardless. Whilst you threw off the British yoke, hundreds of years ago we actually voted for it, (DOH) that is joining the EU. Which proves only one thing, you get the politicians you deserve, in your case George Bush

[Mike90250]

there is a long article in Wired about LED lighting

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/08/ff_lightbulbs/

How about liquid filled thermal fluid LED bulbs ?

[russ]

I feel the same way about the EU as you but the lamp change is a good thing.

In the US it has become a political football with the players changing sides of the argument for three votes and one 'atta boy'.

No reason to waste electricity for no reason whatsoever.

[Crumb]

there is a long article in Wired about LED lighting

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/08/ff_lightbulbs/

How about liquid filled thermal fluid LED bulbs ?

Mineral oil or glycol maybe. Neither of which you want spilled in the house.

This is Pepsi behind it, and something I did not know was that sugar water doesn't really conduct electricity from what I have just found. Maybe a clue.

http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA1/R1MAIN/CD1R3310.HTM

I know sugar holds onto heat real well, this is why your chocolate lava cake from dominoes is still almost enough to burn you AFTER the drive home, and AFTER the pizza. (Tasty though.)

Heck of a lot better than the alternatives like firey oil, mercury, and stuff you don't want your cat eating.

[anern]

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