LED vs CFL - 2

[Utana]

Not sure where you get your numbers from but the average is 4 mg, and many less than 1 mg.

My number came from some unknown internet article I looked up yesterday just before I posted it. It said that 20 mg was an average, and I probably didn't see where it included tubes as well as the smaller screw in bulbs. I'm sure your numbers are far better than mine. Thanks for all the awesome info on the amount of mercury in these different types of bulbs.

Thanks for the article you posted Russ. That confirms that the amount of mercury in these small bulbs is only about 4 mg. Hmmm... not that I recommend this at all, but theoretically I could mix the mercury from 3 bulbs in a couple pounds of soil here in GA and the state would be okay with that. Kind of frightening actually.

Kelly

[russ]

An Energy Star document about mercury in CFL lamps plus more -

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

Far more mercury comes from generating plants and using CFL lamps causes far less mercury release into the environment than most other types of lamp.

[Sunking]

I know I really should make more of an effort. I really do believe that every little bit counts, but I really don't think this is too bad. Our state allows 17 mg/kg in soil before they will take any action. One kg is about 2 lbs of soil, and these bulbs only have 20 mg of mercury.

Not sure where you get your numbers from but the average is 4 mg, and many less than 1 mg.

As for the large tubes you have.

Lamp	Amount (mg.)
Pre 1988 T-12	~45
Post 1988 T-12	~11.6
Typical T8	~4 to 5
Low Mercury T8	~3
CFL	~4 to 5

So even the tube argument does not hold water. Most of all industry and commercial now uses T8 and T5 lamps which are about the same or less than than CFL. Just much more efficient.

California has always been one of the strictest states for environmental rules. I wish GA could do more, but we barely have enough money to look after what we have.

Careful what you ask for because you might just get it.

[Utana]

ARGHH !!
When the compactor truck picks up your can-o-trash, and then at the transfer station, mushes it into a giant cube, and then at the dump when the bulldozers level out the piles, that mercury is now loose ! Someday, someone is going to mine those landfills, for all the tungsten, mercury, lead, steel, tin, copper and aluminun.
Bag the bulbs and take them back to Ikea, Home Depot, or any of the other big places that collect them.

In Kalifornia, it's illegal now to place bulbs and batteries in the trash, as they are listed as haz mat waste.

I know I really should make more of an effort. I really do believe that every little bit counts, but I really don't think this is too bad. Our state allows 17 mg/kg in soil before they will take any action. One kg is about 2 lbs of soil, and these bulbs only have 20 mg of mercury. My state wouldn't have any requirements for me if I dumped it all right on the ground. Now if there are a lot of bulbs or those larger tube bulbs, that's a different matter. My main concern is that my daughter will see it sitting on the kitchen table, play with it and break it. You might say I'm more concerned about accidentally contaminating my home. Its already happened once before I decided to just throw them quickly. I don't think anyone accepts broken bulbs for recycling, at least they are not supposed to.

California has always been one of the strictest states for environmental rules. I wish GA could do more, but we barely have enough money to look after what we have.

Kelly

[russ]

We played with the stuff (mercury) as kids - fun making dimes shiny with it - no big deal. In ındustry it was used in many types of instruments up until the 80's - not a microgram but pounds of the stuff. that was not a good thing. The hatters worked with it on their skin for long hours everyday - a very different scenario. In the US there are collection points for many of these type of items - might try looking up one.

Vinnie - Your term intermittence - has nothing to do with EMF that I can find. Might try sticking to proper terms and definitions. Try Treehugger - they love this kind of junk and you will find many to agree with whatever crazy statement is made.

I am not on a rant against LED's - I use them in my home but I don't make silly claims about checking customers electric bills and a 12 to 13 month payback. They will become cheaper and more useful in the home. They will be more widely used as the cost comes down and numerous technical shortcomings are overcome. Now that the large lighting companies are in the market that will happen much more rapidly.

OK, suppose we say that 300 million people don't dispose of CFL's correctly - that means most everyone from the age of 6 up? Your argument makes no sense. There are many things toxic that are not correctly disposed of that are more dangerous simply due to the quantities and toxicity of those items. Dumping old medicine in the loo is probably a far more dangerous thing for that matter.

Quote, 'I'm just using the best assertion and discretions I can to give an appropriate opinion on the matter.' You are only asserting that BS is fact. I have no idea what you want to say with the word 'discretions'. It is meaningless in this context. You are giving your opinion - not giving an appropriate opinion.

[Mike90250]

I must confess that every 2-4 months when I do have to replace a CFL bulb, I just wrap the darn thing in a few plastic grocery bags and throw it into the garbage. Mercury, much like other metals don't tend to travel too far in the ground even when its in the groundwater. I figure its better in a lined landfill than sitting in my car or around my house waiting to be broken (which is a big concern) while I wait for a time when I can drive it somewhere to dispose of it.

ARGHH !!
When the compactor truck picks up your can-o-trash, and then at the transfer station, mushes it into a giant cube, and then at the dump when the bulldozers level out the piles, that mercury is now loose ! Someday, someone is going to mine those landfills, for all the tungsten, mercury, lead, steel, tin, copper and aluminun.
Bag the bulbs and take them back to Ikea, Home Depot, or any of the other big places that collect them.

In Kalifornia, it's illegal now to place bulbs and batteries in the trash, as they are listed as haz mat waste.

[vinniethePVtech]

I never said there would be health problems from EMF. I just said there is EMF or what I call intermittence. EMF wasn't being disregarded, it's just making claims that the health implications aren't that significant and aren't proven. Which I agree, however I do believe to some small degree EMF can effect some not all people that are sensitive to it.

The article wasn't disregarded that it wasn't dirty power either, it is dirty the way it produces light.

Now let's say you take 300 million people in the united states that do not properly dispose of cfls.
Those mg of mercury add up. I am not conservative or liberal about the stance of cfls. I'm just using the best assertion and discretions I can to give an appropriate opinion on the matter.

[Utana]

Your mercury point is more silly green stuff - a responsible person that cares, such as you claim to be, simply disposes of them correctly.

I would say yes and no. I like to consider myself more or less a tree hugger. I know that mercury is why they called the hatters "mad" (mercury paint). I know mercury can volatilize and be breathed in and can cause all kinds of health problems, and that we can't eat much fish out of our local rivers because of industrial mercury contamination. But I don't think mercury vapors can escape an unbroken CFL bulb. And as much as I am a tree hugger, I must confess that every 2-4 months when I do have to replace a CFL bulb, I just wrap the darn thing in a few plastic grocery bags and throw it into the garbage. Mercury, much like other metals don't tend to travel too far in the ground even when its in the groundwater. I figure its better in a lined landfill than sitting in my car or around my house waiting to be broken (which is a big concern) while I wait for a time when I can drive it somewhere to dispose of it.

I remember breaking a mercury thermometer as a kid and me and my sisters had a good time rolling the stuff into silver balls on the coffee table. Luckily my mom came and cleaned it up before we touched it too much. lol.

Kelly

[russ]

[QUOTE=vinniethePVtech;34702]http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...d-bad-science/

Dirty power brought to you by the cfl.[/QUOTE

I suggest you read the article yourself - it directly contradicts everything you are claiming.

copied from the site -

Conclusion

The notion that EMF or dirty electricity causes a health risk, and that CFLs are a significant source of exposure, is not based upon any compelling science.
Further, such claims stem mostly from a single researcher who appears to spend most of her time spreading fear about EMF than producing quality research.
[B]
The media and the public should not be confused by this lone researcher on the fringe into believing that

[vinniethePVtech]

Just for RUSS, the non believer

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/cfls-dirty-electricity-and-bad-science/

Dirty power brought to you by the cfl.

[Utana]

I've been researching more and more about LEDs since I found these threads in this forum (great forum!!). I've found some 6-7 watt LED bulbs on Amazon that are about 50-60 watt equivalents that are only about $15, and get really good reviews. Now that they are closer to an acceptable price range, I think I'm going to get a couple and see how I like them. I was also researching all the LED bulbs on Amazon in general and its amazing how much the price has come down on these over this past year. There are a couple of cheaper ones that get really good reviews. Even the ones with good reviews still say they have the following problems:

-180 degree surround light (instead of 360)
-must put them in an open-ended light fixture to keep them cool else they will loose lumens and may change color.

I also noticed LED models that have almost the same wattage as the CFLs. One that get's excellent reviews is a 12 watt model that is a 60 watt equivalent. Not much different between this one and the CFLs. One of these gets rave reviews. I had to kind of wonder about that.

Kelly

[vinniethePVtech]

Vinnie - You are posting garbage and it was removed. A good tech is a great guy to have on a team. A wiseass tech is useless and dangerous.

Your redlines are another meaningless item.

Discussion complete - any further posts along the same lines will be deleted.

You are only whining about initial cost. Other than that led technology is better than cfl.
It's new therefore misunderstood in cost. A few years from now LEDs will be just as inexpensive as cfl.
LED is better.
The technology to manufacture is cheaper to make, I believe your only rant is how the consumer gets ripped off in the initial purchase. Just like any technology that is new it comes with an impacted cost.

[russ]

Vinnie - You are posting garbage and it was removed. A good tech is a great guy to have on a team. A wiseass tech is useless and dangerous.

Your redlines are another meaningless item.

Discussion complete - any further posts along the same lines will be deleted.

[russ]

Seeing your customers electric bills is totally meaningless. You have to monitor the individual circuit to know where the power goes. Sounds good but the statement is actually meaningless.

Your post is 100% blather and is what tends to mislead people into believing such stuff.

Your mercury point is more silly green stuff - a responsible person that cares, such as you claim to be, simply disposes of them correctly.

I am not interested in any you tube link for the cfl intermittence (whatever that may be) - what some idiot recorded and posted has no meaning - if there is a reference from a real source and not from garbage land it would be welcome.

I suggest you don't talk about things 'from an engineering standpoint' - You are clearly not qualified to do so - you have stated and proved such.

Sunking told you a couple of days back that you can have your own opinion but not your own facts - this is the same thing.

90% plus of the 'true stories' of green sites and you tube are simply imaginary stories or blatant BS.- - that is my opinion and very accurate.

[vinniethePVtech]

After 12 to 14 months? You must be using that new math they teach today - were no matter what the result is they call it correct so the little *** won't feel bad. That 40$ LED is for green fools that want to feel good.

You shouldn't listen to whatever fool told you such things - a CFL gives off dirty power - meaningless statement.

Kettybell was pretty much on.

I'm that fool that requests copies of my customers utility bills. So that my references are legitimate when I do work for new customers. Pre installed canisters retro fit LEDs are selling at home depot for $34.99, direct retro fit kits make a ROI roughly 12 to 14 months after install.
Now if it's a complete remodel with new cans ROI is roughly 30- 33 months.
Those are truthful figures. Based off of California electrical rates.
I will look up the you tube link on cfl intermittence but the test results show dirty electrical emissions and interference from cfls. Besides all that non sense I actually give a damn about my kids future. I dont want to be that guy that disposes of mercury filled products and 20 years later one of my kids get mercury poisoning.
Sorry if it's a problem that I have a conscious.