LED vs CFL - 2

[Utana]

Your mercury point is more silly green stuff - a responsible person that cares, such as you claim to be, simply disposes of them correctly.

I would say yes and no. I like to consider myself more or less a tree hugger. I know that mercury is why they called the hatters "mad" (mercury paint). I know mercury can volatilize and be breathed in and can cause all kinds of health problems, and that we can't eat much fish out of our local rivers because of industrial mercury contamination. But I don't think mercury vapors can escape an unbroken CFL bulb. And as much as I am a tree hugger, I must confess that every 2-4 months when I do have to replace a CFL bulb, I just wrap the darn thing in a few plastic grocery bags and throw it into the garbage. Mercury, much like other metals don't tend to travel too far in the ground even when its in the groundwater. I figure its better in a lined landfill than sitting in my car or around my house waiting to be broken (which is a big concern) while I wait for a time when I can drive it somewhere to dispose of it.

I remember breaking a mercury thermometer as a kid and me and my sisters had a good time rolling the stuff into silver balls on the coffee table. Luckily my mom came and cleaned it up before we touched it too much. lol.

Kelly

[vinniethePVtech]

I never said there would be health problems from EMF. I just said there is EMF or what I call intermittence. EMF wasn't being disregarded, it's just making claims that the health implications aren't that significant and aren't proven. Which I agree, however I do believe to some small degree EMF can effect some not all people that are sensitive to it.

The article wasn't disregarded that it wasn't dirty power either, it is dirty the way it produces light.

Now let's say you take 300 million people in the united states that do not properly dispose of cfls.
Those mg of mercury add up. I am not conservative or liberal about the stance of cfls. I'm just using the best assertion and discretions I can to give an appropriate opinion on the matter.

[Mike90250]

I must confess that every 2-4 months when I do have to replace a CFL bulb, I just wrap the darn thing in a few plastic grocery bags and throw it into the garbage. Mercury, much like other metals don't tend to travel too far in the ground even when its in the groundwater. I figure its better in a lined landfill than sitting in my car or around my house waiting to be broken (which is a big concern) while I wait for a time when I can drive it somewhere to dispose of it.

ARGHH !!
When the compactor truck picks up your can-o-trash, and then at the transfer station, mushes it into a giant cube, and then at the dump when the bulldozers level out the piles, that mercury is now loose ! Someday, someone is going to mine those landfills, for all the tungsten, mercury, lead, steel, tin, copper and aluminun.
Bag the bulbs and take them back to Ikea, Home Depot, or any of the other big places that collect them.

In Kalifornia, it's illegal now to place bulbs and batteries in the trash, as they are listed as haz mat waste.

[russ]

We played with the stuff (mercury) as kids - fun making dimes shiny with it - no big deal. In ındustry it was used in many types of instruments up until the 80's - not a microgram but pounds of the stuff. that was not a good thing. The hatters worked with it on their skin for long hours everyday - a very different scenario. In the US there are collection points for many of these type of items - might try looking up one.

Vinnie - Your term intermittence - has nothing to do with EMF that I can find. Might try sticking to proper terms and definitions. Try Treehugger - they love this kind of junk and you will find many to agree with whatever crazy statement is made.

I am not on a rant against LED's - I use them in my home but I don't make silly claims about checking customers electric bills and a 12 to 13 month payback. They will become cheaper and more useful in the home. They will be more widely used as the cost comes down and numerous technical shortcomings are overcome. Now that the large lighting companies are in the market that will happen much more rapidly.

OK, suppose we say that 300 million people don't dispose of CFL's correctly - that means most everyone from the age of 6 up? Your argument makes no sense. There are many things toxic that are not correctly disposed of that are more dangerous simply due to the quantities and toxicity of those items. Dumping old medicine in the loo is probably a far more dangerous thing for that matter.

Quote, 'I'm just using the best assertion and discretions I can to give an appropriate opinion on the matter.' You are only asserting that BS is fact. I have no idea what you want to say with the word 'discretions'. It is meaningless in this context. You are giving your opinion - not giving an appropriate opinion.

[Utana]

ARGHH !!
When the compactor truck picks up your can-o-trash, and then at the transfer station, mushes it into a giant cube, and then at the dump when the bulldozers level out the piles, that mercury is now loose ! Someday, someone is going to mine those landfills, for all the tungsten, mercury, lead, steel, tin, copper and aluminun.
Bag the bulbs and take them back to Ikea, Home Depot, or any of the other big places that collect them.

In Kalifornia, it's illegal now to place bulbs and batteries in the trash, as they are listed as haz mat waste.

I know I really should make more of an effort. I really do believe that every little bit counts, but I really don't think this is too bad. Our state allows 17 mg/kg in soil before they will take any action. One kg is about 2 lbs of soil, and these bulbs only have 20 mg of mercury. My state wouldn't have any requirements for me if I dumped it all right on the ground. Now if there are a lot of bulbs or those larger tube bulbs, that's a different matter. My main concern is that my daughter will see it sitting on the kitchen table, play with it and break it. You might say I'm more concerned about accidentally contaminating my home. Its already happened once before I decided to just throw them quickly. I don't think anyone accepts broken bulbs for recycling, at least they are not supposed to.

California has always been one of the strictest states for environmental rules. I wish GA could do more, but we barely have enough money to look after what we have.

Kelly

[Sunking]

I know I really should make more of an effort. I really do believe that every little bit counts, but I really don't think this is too bad. Our state allows 17 mg/kg in soil before they will take any action. One kg is about 2 lbs of soil, and these bulbs only have 20 mg of mercury.

Not sure where you get your numbers from but the average is 4 mg, and many less than 1 mg.

As for the large tubes you have.

Lamp	Amount (mg.)
Pre 1988 T-12	~45
Post 1988 T-12	~11.6
Typical T8	~4 to 5
Low Mercury T8	~3
CFL	~4 to 5

So even the tube argument does not hold water. Most of all industry and commercial now uses T8 and T5 lamps which are about the same or less than than CFL. Just much more efficient.

California has always been one of the strictest states for environmental rules. I wish GA could do more, but we barely have enough money to look after what we have.

Careful what you ask for because you might just get it.

[russ]

An Energy Star document about mercury in CFL lamps plus more -

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

Far more mercury comes from generating plants and using CFL lamps causes far less mercury release into the environment than most other types of lamp.

[Utana]

Not sure where you get your numbers from but the average is 4 mg, and many less than 1 mg.

My number came from some unknown internet article I looked up yesterday just before I posted it. It said that 20 mg was an average, and I probably didn't see where it included tubes as well as the smaller screw in bulbs. I'm sure your numbers are far better than mine. Thanks for all the awesome info on the amount of mercury in these different types of bulbs.

Thanks for the article you posted Russ. That confirms that the amount of mercury in these small bulbs is only about 4 mg. Hmmm... not that I recommend this at all, but theoretically I could mix the mercury from 3 bulbs in a couple pounds of soil here in GA and the state would be okay with that. Kind of frightening actually.

Kelly