LED Lights Are You Ready?

[Naptown]

I have frogs that bark

I have deer that bark at me.

[fireofenergy]

Check out the Cree XML

Sunking, I read some of your posts to my dismay (because you alerted me about the dangers of DIY panels! Thanks!). Anyways, I would ONLY use the Cree XPG or XML because they are about twice as efficient as the CFL (and last longer if driven properly). I'm talking 12v systems (and I want even just 4 volts!). Each XML led mounted on a "star" costs about $9 to $11, then the driver, which I found at led supply (also) costs $20 but will power three XML's at 1.4A...
Which equates to about 1,500 lumens. In this case, I guess I would need at least a 10Ah 12v battery, the battery protection electronics, and a 45 watt panel, just to power this thing (brighter than a porchlight) on a regular (and not having to worry about it going dim in just a few hours) basis!
However, if a large solar/lead acid source was available, it seems that this would be the way to go, as it IS THEE most efficient (as far as I know)
Here's the specs for the Cree XML

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXM-L.pdf

And, again, thanks for "being negative" about the DIY because I was thinking (and still wonder) about a totally plexiglass encased (8Amp and 4v) panel...

[john p]

Mike this is my point about this.. Your wife likes a certain type of lighting colour.. and thats that..
You could have someone do all the light calculations possible. and "prove" what is "correct" but I bet you still couldnt get her to chage her mind.

Thats why I say to anyone if possible try some lower power consumption LEDs in a room if you like the result thats fine, and now you will save some,but mabe not a lot of money.. You will if you have a dozen or two of the worlds worst light the 50w halogen MR16... Im sure those wasteful things were invented by a power company shareholder.

[Mike90250]

22000k ?? I think but not certain and its possible im wrong but isnt 5500k "daylight" the desired colour temperature??

It's a more orange color than warm white, better for indoor ambient. (better for "She Who Must Be Obeyed", 'cause if Mama ain't happy,nobodys' happy)

[john p]

22000k ?? I think but not certain and its possible im wrong but isnt 5500k "daylight" the desired colour temperature??

[Mike90250]

Will be interesting to see if my wife even notices.

Ha, my wife is one of those with the 4th set of cones, and can tell the difference of blue paint from the AM, to PM, out of the same can. And there are not many candelabra base halogen bulbs on the market. I'm allowed 2 LED night lights, because the 7w incandescents burn out too often. 6 months, when she's in the dark from dead batteries, perhaps the tune will change.
Just found LEDtronics has a new LED color, 22000K "filament" - I'll have to try that one.

[john p]

XYZDNL read my post #6. Where I have tried to explain it all. (probably badly)
This is my thoughts on the subject.. forget the figures they really dont mean much. If you have replaced the lights whatever they are with measured lower power draw LEDs and you are happy with the result. Then all is well. happy days.
Who has ever designed their lighting for their home and done light measurements and calculated the light level for each room???
99.999 % of people just add light fittings until they find it looks harmonious to them then they add lamps of some description and wattage until the room reaches the desired lighting level.
Some people want something close to daylight in every room some just like subdued lighting.. there is no right or wrong..
In a commercial building /offices /workshops. manufacturing facility. things are different. but thats another story.

[yyzdnl]

Be careful because this is where the LED manufactures like to play number games:

• They do not include driver power consumption.
• They spec it at a micro-second full power pulse so it does not heat up an loose brilliance. If you tried to run at full power, as it heats up it looses intensity and will only last a very short period of time before it burns out

So once you put them in the real world and run at sustainable power levels and include driver cuts the claimed efficiency 50 to 80%.

Great to know, but how would I test this real world? I tested the three bulbs I have and they consistently pull 4.4-4.5 watts thats better than the spec of 6 watts.

I put them in the bathroom against a Sylvania 13 watt CFL rated at 800 lumens and a GE soft white 60 watt incandescent. It is a multi exposed bulb fixture so I could quickly switch between bulbs the incandescent and CFL where indistinguishable. The LED bulb was slightly dimmer but really hard to detect after I removed the plastic diffuser/cover.

The LED is rated at 700 lumens I don't have a clue what a difference of 100 lumens should look like to the eye.

Even if it is only 500 lumens with the diffuser on it is running 100+ lumens/watt. That seems real good for the standard the E27 sockets my house is full of.

I slipped one into our bedroom ceiling fan without diffusser since it has a frosted globe. Will be interesting to see if my wife even notices.

[Mike90250]

I have frogs that bark

[john p]

Sunking you only get 4 out of 10 for that. You are not a great animal teacher until you can teach a cat to bark

[Sunking]

trying to teach a cat to bark.

I taught a parrot to bark when I was a kid.

[john p]

Sunking I know that, and that is why I specifically noted that in USA only electronic ballasts are used. BUT most of asia about 3 billion (a few more than in USA)people still use and buy the magnetic ballast.Because its a fact for some reason the electronic ones are more expensive, and thinking in most of Asia is a bit different. They buy on price only. Explaining to them its false economy gets same result as trying to teach a cat to bark.

[Sunking]

Well John you cannot buy any magnetic ballast in the USA, they did away with those decades ago. Even more significant is LED's cannot be used in any federal buildings, they do not meet minimum efficiency guidelines.

[john p]

Sunking is right thay never include driver power used for LEDs but then they never do either for CFLs or tube fluros.
The 3w and 1w Led lights I use "waste" 6 w
CFLs I have measured all good ones like Philips "waste" 6w some bad ones as much as 9w
Tube fluros that use the non electronic ballast "waste" 40w it makes no difference I have found if using a 20w or 40 w tube,(I know this may not be relevent in USA as only the electronic ballast is used but the old "get very hot" ones are still used in the millions in many countries.)

[Sunking]

Received several different LED lights from Deal Extreme last night. Some of the newer LED lights are pushing the lumen's per watt ratios of the T5 & T8 bulbs. Of the bulbs I received the one I like the best is the E27 HA006 6W 128-LED 700-Lumen 4000K Warm White Light Bulb (110V). It has a real natural color and looks great in lamps and fixtures using the E27 socket.

Be careful because this is where the LED manufactures like to play number games:

• They do not include driver power consumption.
• They spec it at a micro-second full power pulse so it does not heat up an loose brilliance. If you tried to run at full power, as it heats up it looses intensity and will only last a very short period of time before it burns out

So once you put them in the real world and run at sustainable power levels and include driver cuts the claimed efficiency 50 to 80%. With all the work going into LED's I think they will be become the leader at some point, but what is on the market right now just falls short.

There are some nice niche applications like a project we did for Walmart. We changed out all their meat counters, display freezer and coolers with very high efficiency refrigeration and the units used LED's With the cold climate they are able to run at high power level to get the efficiency without over heating the base, and directional nature of LED's are able to put the light on the product. But for room and area lighting, not yet.