New to solar, have bid from Solar City

[Rockit31]

Spoke with another Sunpower local dealer and gave him the specs of the other Sunpower bid, using 24 panels, the E20's, he came back later with a quote over $7000 cheaper! This is another Elite level SP dealer. He's coming out in a couple days to do the site survey. Sheesh! I figured SP bids would vary some, but this much?

[CJ SolarTown]

Quotes will vary but more importantly though you may want to look at the quality of work installers have done in the past. Pricing is important but sometimes a good reputation and quality of work can make sense especially if the quotes are competitive. There are many new modules coming online now offering 300+ wattage (physically larger but considerably more energy output and more efficient) so it doesn't shock me that less modules will be used and also less penetrations.

Good luck and feel free to ask a question.

[KRenn]

Spoke with another Sunpower local dealer and gave him the specs of the other Sunpower bid, using 24 panels, the E20's, he came back later with a quote over $7000 cheaper! This is another Elite level SP dealer. He's coming out in a couple days to do the site survey. Sheesh! I figured SP bids would vary some, but this much?

Or more.....the level of the dealer has jacksquat to do with it, every Sun power dealer has to pass stringent insurance and quality standards but they can price as low or as high as they want and pricing can vary as high as 50 cents a watt or more.

[Rockit31]

RealGoods Solar came out last night. They are a unique company in that they are the only one who carries SunPower but is not exclusive to them. They can install anything they want. The sales guy was the sharpest of the lot so far. He took the time to explain alot of elementary stuff that I did not know. Remember, I'm am a total newbie.

It does appear that I do have shading issues even though I had a tree trimmer come by last weekend and knock out alot of stuff. Because of my shading issues he explained that I would be better served by a system that utilizes micro inverters. He explained the whole standard string inverter setup and how if only 1 panel on the array is getting shaded, the whole array takes a serious hit.

With that said and after deciding that I was going to do no further tree hewing, I guess I am resigned to micro inverter installations only now. That also cuts out SunPower as my product.

He showed me the new Enphase inverters and they come with 25 year warranty, plus the added cost versus a string array will not be a whole lot more expensive. I do not have numbers yet, he will deliver them Friday.

My current panel box is original 1973 vintage crap too. Their bid will add the new panel installation as well.

He went on about how they were the very first retail solar people in the nation, how they are a public traded company that has been around over 25 years and are the only one of the big players that is not currently in debt.

After initial eyeballing of my situation, and my desire to have an even/steven electrical bill, he thinks about 35 of the Sharp (i forget the latest model and wattage) panels using Enphase microinverters will be the way to go.

[SoCalsolar]

Right Direction?

I think you are headed in the right direction here assuming this is a purchase and the price looks good. RGs tells a good story and it may be true about how they back packed green products including solar for the hippie communes in NoCal during the 70's. My understanding (admittedly limited) is that RGs franchises its name and distribution network out to independent dealers/contractors who buy product from RGs then the franchise handles the install itself or contracts it out. Like I said I don't have any first hand knowledge, all secondary so if anyone can confirm or deny it would be appreciated. SP offers a panel with micro on it however its pricey. That being said almost any solar array is a good solar array if the price is right. The price thingy is what gets SP on purchases. Did you happen to check out their stock? RSOL on the Nasdaq. This stock might excite some you downhill skiers out there.

[Rockit31]

I think you are headed in the right direction here assuming this is a purchase and the price looks good. RGs tells a good story and it may be true about how they back packed green products including solar for the hippie communes in NoCal during the 70's. My understanding (admittedly limited) is that RGs franchises its name and distribution network out to independent dealers/contractors who buy product from RGs then the franchise handles the install itself or contracts it out. Like I said I don't have any first hand knowledge, all secondary so if anyone can confirm or deny it would be appreciated. SP offers a panel with micro on it however its pricey. That being said almost any solar array is a good solar array if the price is right. The price thingy is what gets SP on purchases. Did you happen to check out their stock? RSOL on the Nasdaq. This stock might excite some you downhill skiers out there.

Ouch! RSOL is definitely going down! Wonder what the story behind that is.

Tonight, a representative from SunRun will be over. They are a bit unique I hear in their method of selling me solar.

[SolarPanelsOnline]

you may be overpaying with the solar lease

You could likely get an even better deal buy buying the equipment direct and hiring a local licensed electrician contractor. Their quote of $32,279 for 6.48 kW equals $4.98 per watt. As an example of going direct, you can buy a 6.37 kW system for $15,299 at [Mod: Nice try to avoid our no advertising policy. Another attempt, and you will not be on this site for long.] and some other places. That's $2.40 per watt for all the equipment with 25 year warranty, UL certified, etc. You can have the system permitted and installed for $1 to $2 per watt with a local contractor. Shop around and make sure you get 2 or 3 quotes. You would be saving from $0.58 to $1.58 per watt, or $3,695 to $10,000. You could arrange your own low cost financing and keep all the tax credits and rebates. If you use home equity loan, then you could deduct the interest payments. Plus if you ever decide to sell the house, the system goes with it.

[inetdog]

can buy ... at solar panels online org and some other places.

"A family business since 2007, FreeCleanSolar, Inc. dba SolarPanelsOnline*org is a Delaware Corporation operating throughout the U.S. with corporate office located at 2711 Centerville Rd, Wilmington, DE 19808, and offices in California and Ohio."

So much for .org being non-profit?

[russ]

SolarPanels likes to chatter before thinking apparently - as well as trying for free advertising.

The last thing the novice and even people with some knowledge want to do is start to buy bits and parts to have a third party put together.

That is a very easy for the unknowing to end up with an expensive, useless hodgepodge mess.

If you are into and understand electric thingys then it is an option.

For the people not accustomed to it the permitting, inspections and formalities could be a killer.

[Rockit31]

So AcroEnergy, affiliated with SunRun, came out last night. I'll keep this one brief: When you see SunRun coming, RUN AWAY!

OMG! Talk about the stereotypical shady salesman pitch with the hard sell. He wanted me to cut a $500 check before they do any measurements or anything!

When I brought up my shade issues and how I might be better served with micro inverters, he wasn't even sure what they were. Then he went on to say that my shade issues would have minimal impact on a string system.

[Ian S]

So AcroEnergy, affiliated with SunRun, came out last night. I'll keep this one brief: When you see SunRun coming, RUN AWAY!

OMG! Talk about the stereotypical shady salesman pitch with the hard sell. He wanted me to cut a $500 check before they do any measurements or anything!

When I brought up my shade issues and how I might be better served with micro inverters, he wasn't even sure what they were. Then he went on to say that my shade issues would have minimal impact on a string system.

Yeah, that $500 upfront set off my alarm bells too last year. They were the only ones I got quotes from with that "feature" and I'm surprised they still have it. In any event, when I considered them they weren't competitive even absent that upfront payment.

[Rockit31]

So I've had 2 other Sunpower guys come out. They both think I do not need a microinverter system. The first one even had the shade tool, got on the roof and came back with an overall shade factor of 84%. He calculated that into my 24 panel sized system (7.8kw), added the cost of replacing my electrical panel, and has me priced at $25,618 for prepay 20 year lease.

The second guy came out with opening bid of $22,500 for same system but had not calculated shade nor panel replacement yet. He came by yesterday to take shade measurements and we will meet on Monday for his final bid.

The first guy's estimate with 24 panels using the 7000m inverter guarantees 10,861kwh of production. Based on the fact that I used over 15,000kwh last year, this would leave me with an estimated electrical bill of $57 per month.

He then threw in a bid using 28 panels with the 8000m inverter (9.16kw), which would cost me $28,952 for lease and guarantee 12,671kwh per year. Residual electrical bill of $29.


So at least I'm getting some hard quotes now, figuring in my shade.

Oh, the guy from Real Goods Solar, who wants to go with a microinverter setup using the Enphase inverters, quotes me at $28,065 for prepay lease. This is a 9.55kw sized system, I think upwards of 42 panels. He also went on the roof with his shade tool and has calculated that and the panel replacement in his bid.


What do you all think? Am I better served by microinverters, or is it not necessary considering my shade factor? Looking at one of their graphs, my house would kick butt from March to October (95 to 100% shade factor), it's the other months where some tall trees would put a hurt on me.

[russ]

So I've had 2 other Sunpower guys come out. They both think I do not need a microinverter system. The first one even had the shade tool, got on the roof and came back with an overall shade factor of 84%. He calculated that into my 24 panel sized system (7.8kw), added the cost of replacing my electrical panel, and has me priced at $25,618 for prepay 20 year lease.

The second guy came out with opening bid of $22,500 for same system but had not calculated shade nor panel replacement yet. He came by yesterday to take shade measurements and we will meet on Monday for his final bid.

The first guy's estimate with 24 panels using the 7000m inverter guarantees 10,861kwh of production. Based on the fact that I used over 15,000kwh last year, this would leave me with an estimated electrical bill of $57 per month.

He then threw in a bid using 28 panels with the 8000m inverter (9.16kw), which would cost me $28,952 for lease and guarantee 12,671kwh per year. Residual electrical bill of $29.


So at least I'm getting some hard quotes now, figuring in my shade.

Oh, the guy from Real Goods Solar, who wants to go with a microinverter setup using the Enphase inverters, quotes me at $28,065 for prepay lease. This is a 9.55kw sized system, I think upwards of 42 panels. He also went on the roof with his shade tool and has calculated that and the panel replacement in his bid.


What do you all think? Am I better served by microinverters, or is it not necessary considering my shade factor? Looking at one of their graphs, my house would kick butt from March to October (95 to 100% shade factor), it's the other months where some tall trees would put a hurt on me.

Shade factor? I don't sell the stuff but with a central inverter shade on any part of the string will pretty much shut down the string so it sounds to me like a certain amount of BS is being thrown around. With the microinverters you lose only the panel/panels shaded.

Naptown or KRenn will be along - let us see what they say!

[KRenn]

So I've had 2 other Sunpower guys come out. They both think I do not need a microinverter system. The first one even had the shade tool, got on the roof and came back with an overall shade factor of 84%. He calculated that into my 24 panel sized system (7.8kw), added the cost of replacing my electrical panel, and has me priced at $25,618 for prepay 20 year lease.

The second guy came out with opening bid of $22,500 for same system but had not calculated shade nor panel replacement yet. He came by yesterday to take shade measurements and we will meet on Monday for his final bid.

The first guy's estimate with 24 panels using the 7000m inverter guarantees 10,861kwh of production. Based on the fact that I used over 15,000kwh last year, this would leave me with an estimated electrical bill of $57 per month.

He then threw in a bid using 28 panels with the 8000m inverter (9.16kw), which would cost me $28,952 for lease and guarantee 12,671kwh per year. Residual electrical bill of $29.


So at least I'm getting some hard quotes now, figuring in my shade.

Oh, the guy from Real Goods Solar, who wants to go with a microinverter setup using the Enphase inverters, quotes me at $28,065 for prepay lease. This is a 9.55kw sized system, I think upwards of 42 panels. He also went on the roof with his shade tool and has calculated that and the panel replacement in his bid.


What do you all think? Am I better served by microinverters, or is it not necessary considering my shade factor? Looking at one of their graphs, my house would kick butt from March to October (95 to 100% shade factor), it's the other months where some tall trees would put a hurt on me.

All prepaid leases are going to have guaranteed production amounts, while usually conservative, at least its a sound number to rely on. If the shading is that limited, you can get away with a central inverter, although with Sun power I would absolutely, 100% insist on them using Power-One inverters which possess dual-MPPT technology and limits shade-related loss by a significant amount.


However if the pricing and production are equal, with the shade considered, I would choose the Real Goods solution, I'm not a huge fan of micro-inverters by any means but in your case it seems like they could do you a lot of good. Now if the 2nd SunPower guy comes back on Monday with a quote that is say $3000 less and utilizes Power-One inverters and includes the panel upgrade, I'd have no problem recommending that solution.

[Ian S]

So I've had 2 other Sunpower guys come out. They both think I do not need a microinverter system. The first one even had the shade tool, got on the roof and came back with an overall shade factor of 84%. He calculated that into my 24 panel sized system (7.8kw), added the cost of replacing my electrical panel, and has me priced at $25,618 for prepay 20 year lease.

The second guy came out with opening bid of $22,500 for same system but had not calculated shade nor panel replacement yet. He came by yesterday to take shade measurements and we will meet on Monday for his final bid.

The first guy's estimate with 24 panels using the 7000m inverter guarantees 10,861kwh of production. Based on the fact that I used over 15,000kwh last year, this would leave me with an estimated electrical bill of $57 per month.

He then threw in a bid using 28 panels with the 8000m inverter (9.16kw), which would cost me $28,952 for lease and guarantee 12,671kwh per year. Residual electrical bill of $29.


So at least I'm getting some hard quotes now, figuring in my shade.

Oh, the guy from Real Goods Solar, who wants to go with a microinverter setup using the Enphase inverters, quotes me at $28,065 for prepay lease. This is a 9.55kw sized system, I think upwards of 42 panels. He also went on the roof with his shade tool and has calculated that and the panel replacement in his bid.


What do you all think? Am I better served by microinverters, or is it not necessary considering my shade factor? Looking at one of their graphs, my house would kick butt from March to October (95 to 100% shade factor), it's the other months where some tall trees would put a hurt on me.

Well, the RGS system is over 20% larger in power for less than 10% more in cost than the 7.8 kWh system. And that includes the costlier microinverters. Have you looked over the actual contracts to see how other factors compare? Who is responsible for insuring the system? Are there up-front payments prior to installation? What happens if you sell the house - can you do a buyout if necessary? What happens at lease end? Monitoring included? Roof penetration warranty?