New to solar, have bid from Solar City

[SoCalsolar]

Let me clarify

Let me clarify a couple of things from my previous comment. "The pricing on SP looks pretty good for the new lease unfortunately this is the new reality." This doesn't mean I would spend my money on this lease. It means more that SP has priced themselves out of the lease market until SC increases their lease price or SP lowers theirs. When I say it looks pretty good that was wholly intended to mean that considering what SunPower charges for their panels the price in the lease is fair considering the changes to the pricing structure they made recently. I'm not suggesting you go with that lease. I think you will be better off in you can finance it and if you can utilize the federal tax credit by purchasing non-SP panels and foregoing the lease entirely. The PPD lease ship seems to have sailed for the foreseeable future IMO it's back to people owning their PV systems. In looking back over these posts Rock, the SC lease seems to increase in price as it gets larger about 40 cents more per watt on the larger system (10.08). This makes me think that they have a bit of room to lower the price of the larger system, snuck a main panel upgrade in there or something. Do you know what your annual kWhrs are? It looks like they are about 14400 kWhr a year to me. This should pretty much be where everyone going solar should start and don't rely on the salesman to calculate this number. This is where the number fudging can begin. SC Edison has this information online or you can call in to get it. I imagine PG&E does the same. The larger SC system to be capable of covering your entire bill approaching the 15,000 kWhr production range annually. The smaller SC system I have at a little over 9,000 kWhr annually takes your bill with the E8 rate down to about $45 a month (I used the CSI calc). If your annual consumption is about 14400 a year you would need 36-39 240w panels with the switch to E8 you ought to get that thing down to zero for a few years. Find a company that guarantees production before you purchase.

[Rockit31]

Then make a post comparing the 2 directly - without the input this is wasted time

Ok, I have the data now.

Solar City 10.08 kw annual production 12,859kwh

Sunpower 7.8 kw annual production 12,331kwh

[Rockit31]

Let me clarify a couple of things from my previous comment. "The pricing on SP looks pretty good for the new lease unfortunately this is the new reality." This doesn't mean I would spend my money on this lease. It means more that SP has priced themselves out of the lease market until SC increases their lease price or SP lowers theirs. When I say it looks pretty good that was wholly intended to mean that considering what SunPower charges for their panels the price in the lease is fair considering the changes to the pricing structure they made recently. I'm not suggesting you go with that lease. I think you will be better off in you can finance it and if you can utilize the federal tax credit by purchasing non-SP panels and foregoing the lease entirely. The PPD lease ship seems to have sailed for the foreseeable future IMO it's back to people owning their PV systems. In looking back over these posts Rock, the SC lease seems to increase in price as it gets larger about 40 cents more per watt on the larger system (10.08). This makes me think that they have a bit of room to lower the price of the larger system, snuck a main panel upgrade in there or something. Do you know what your annual kWhrs are? It looks like they are about 14400 kWhr a year to me. This should pretty much be where everyone going solar should start and don't rely on the salesman to calculate this number. This is where the number fudging can begin. SC Edison has this information online or you can call in to get it. I imagine PG&E does the same. The larger SC system to be capable of covering your entire bill approaching the 15,000 kWhr production range annually. The smaller SC system I have at a little over 9,000 kWhr annually takes your bill with the E8 rate down to about $45 a month (I used the CSI calc). If your annual consumption is about 14400 a year you would need 36-39 240w panels with the switch to E8 you ought to get that thing down to zero for a few years. Find a company that guarantees production before you purchase.

My usage over the last year was just over 15,000 on the E8 schedule. I got this straight from my account on PG&E's website

[SoCalsolar]

Things are happening fast and furious now

Things are happening fast and furious now aren't they? Your SP sales guy was more right then wrong although they did round up on the AC size of 24 SP 327 panels. The AC rating is 6.94 and the DC is 7.85. It is in writing on the 2nd page of your proposal. The SP proposal tool is accurate and while one can manipulate some of the numbers in it the system size is not up for discussion and is computed on sound calculations backed by a large company that has a lot to lose if they are padding the numbers. The numbers in the final lease docs will appear similar to the initial proposal and you ought to look them over prior to signing on the last page the amount that appears on the proposal is the median number between the range that SP will guarantee annually for the next 20 years. Are SP's production numbers high? I think so but we will know for sure soon. Rock if you want more of my opinion or experience PM me this thread has just about worn my finger tips off.

[russ]

Looking at PV Watts and comparing

SP SC
DC watts 7800 10080
panels 42 24
panel watts 185 420
annual production
company 12331 12859
PV Watts 10151 14618
PV Watts AC rating 5,4 kW 7,8 kW

Something is not right

[Rockit31]

Things are happening fast and furious now aren't they? Your SP sales guy was more right then wrong although they did round up on the AC size of 24 SP 327 panels. The AC rating is 6.94 and the DC is 7.85. It is in writing on the 2nd page of your proposal. The SP proposal tool is accurate and while one can manipulate some of the numbers in it the system size is not up for discussion and is computed on sound calculations backed by a large company that has a lot to lose if they are padding the numbers. The numbers in the final lease docs will appear similar to the initial proposal and you ought to look them over prior to signing on the last page the amount that appears on the proposal is the median number between the range that SP will guarantee annually for the next 20 years. Are SP's production numbers high? I think so but we will know for sure soon. Rock if you want more of my opinion or experience PM me this thread has just about worn my finger tips off.

Yeah but it's disheartening. I'm really glad I found this website, but after seeing what others are getting for a prepay lease from SunPower, it's not even close to my recent bid.

I mean come on, a guy in Arizona is getting 11.77kwh system for $15,000. Mine is only a 7.8kwh system and they want twice that amount!

I do have 2 other Sunpower affiliates coming this week to present their bids, so I'm sitting tight till I get more information.

[Ian S]

I mean come on, a guy in Arizona is getting 11.77kwh system for $15,000. Mine is only a 7.8kwh system and they want twice that amount!

Well, there had to be some advantage to living in this backwards hellhole!

[russ]

Well, there had to be some advantage to living in this backwards hellhole!

A Canadian living in Arizona and complaining?

[Rockit31]

For what it's worth:

Just off the phone with another Sunpower installer, and he gave me the skinny on these prepay leases.

Appearantly, Solar City was the first to come out with these things. So Sunpower jumped on the bandwagon and competed with them and thus some very great prices. So now things are settling down and SunPower has readjusted their price.

[Rockit31]

Well, there had to be some advantage to living in this backwards hellhole!

Aren't you in Scottsdale? Hardly the backwards hellhole you describe!!

[Ian S]

A Canadian living in Arizona and complaining?

LOL! Actually, I don't mind living here. I couldn't afford anything like my current home in a desirable area in Cali. If I were seriously considering a place to move it would be New Mexico.

[Mike90250]

Well, as I've stated before, Solar City wants to put 42 panels up to get me close to a 0 balance with my electrical provider.

SunPower wants to put up 24 panels to do the same. You tell me how many less roof penetrations.

Unless sunpower's panels are 2x the wattage of solarcity , it smells wrong.

[KRenn]

Unless sunpower's panels are 2x the wattage of solarcity , it smells wrong.

Sun power is doing an 8 kilowatt, Solarcity is doing a 10 kilowatt, so definitely a difference in size however the production amounts come out pretty similarly which isn't all that shocking. Sun power offers a far less conservative power production guarantee.

[Ian S]

Sun power is doing an 8 kilowatt, Solarcity is doing a 10 kilowatt, so definitely a difference in size however the production amounts come out pretty similarly which isn't all that shocking. Sun power offers a far less conservative power production guarantee.

My SP production guarantee is almost 10% higher than what PVWatts calculates for my system. Of course, if it underproduces, they only pay $0.03 per kWh.

[russ]

My SP production guarantee is almost 10% higher than what PVWatts calculates for my system. Of course, if it underproduces, they only pay $0.03 per kWh.

PV Watts is based on 20 year averages for climatic conditions/insolation so it will never be correct for a given month most likely - long term it should be.