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Well the local installer for SunPower came out today and presented a preliminary bid. Some good news and some bad news, when comparing my other bid from SolarCity.
The good news is that their product appears to be much more efficient than anything else out there. He explained the differences between their panels and the other guys'. I liked that plus the fact that they proposed a 24 panel system sized at 7.0kw AC and 7.8Kw DC. They promised with this size system would virtually eliminate my electric bill if not have them paying me money in the end. I thought WOW! Solar City wanted to use 42 panels to get to that point.
Now the bad news, if you recall in my first post, I was most interested in the prepaid lease. Cough up all the money at once and never pay the solar company another dime and depending on my system size, eliminate or drastically reduce my electric bill.
The prepaid lease price for this system from Arise Solar is $29,515 for a 20 year deal. That is substantially more than the $16,500 I was quoted from Solar City. But then again, the Solar City quote was for a system of 27 panels that would only offset my electrical bill by about 60%. If I wanted to purchase the Arise panels, total investment after rebates would be $31,100. The no money down 20 yr lease was going to cost me $243 a month.
Decisions, decisions.
My next step now, is getting ahold of another local installer who does SunPower and get their bid to see how it matches up with this one.
I also have another installer who is affiliated with SunRun coming over in a couple of days.Comment
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What is your zip code?The good news is that their product appears to be much more efficient than anything else out there. Meaningless to you unless you lack adequate roof space.
He explained the differences between their panels and the other guys'. I liked that plus the fact that they proposed a 24 panel system sized at 7.0kw AC and 7.8Kw DC. They promised with this size system would virtually eliminate my electric bill if not have them paying me money in the end. I thought WOW! Solar City wanted to use 42 panels to get to that pointa.Somebody is spreading BS at this point - that much difference is salesman's blather unless someone was using panels about 60% of the size
Now the bad news, if you recall in my first post, I was most interested in the prepaid lease. Cough up all the money at once and never pay the solar company another dime and depending on my system size, eliminate or drastically reduce my electric bill.
The prepaid lease price for this system from Arise Solar is $29,515 for a 20 year deal. That is substantially more than the $16,500 I was quoted from Solar City. But then again, the Solar City quote was for a system of 27 panels that would only offset my electrical bill by about 60%. If I wanted to purchase the Arise panels, total investment after rebates would be $31,100. The no money down 20 yr lease was going to cost me $243 a month.
Not time for decisions yet - you are trying to compare salesman's talk and probably not much in writing. Make your self a matrix and compare point to point - the 7.8 DC to 7.0 AC is far more generous that PV Watts gives - a 77% derate factor (conservative) gives 6.2 kW AC from a 8.0 kW DC system.
Decisions, decisions.
My next step now, is getting ahold of another local installer who does SunPower and get their bid to see how it matches up with this one.
I also have another installer who is affiliated with SunRun coming over in a couple of days.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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WOW.Well the local installer for SunPower came out today and presented a preliminary bid. Some good news and some bad news, when comparing my other bid from SolarCity.
The good news is that their product appears to be much more efficient than anything else out there. He explained the differences between their panels and the other guys'. I liked that plus the fact that they proposed a 24 panel system sized at 7.0kw AC and 7.8Kw DC. They promised with this size system would virtually eliminate my electric bill if not have them paying me money in the end. I thought WOW! Solar City wanted to use 42 panels to get to that point.
Now the bad news, if you recall in my first post, I was most interested in the prepaid lease. Cough up all the money at once and never pay the solar company another dime and depending on my system size, eliminate or drastically reduce my electric bill.
The prepaid lease price for this system from Arise Solar is $29,515 for a 20 year deal. That is substantially more than the $16,500 I was quoted from Solar City. But then again, the Solar City quote was for a system of 27 panels that would only offset my electrical bill by about 60%. If I wanted to purchase the Arise panels, total investment after rebates would be $31,100. The no money down 20 yr lease was going to cost me $243 a month.
Decisions, decisions.
My next step now, is getting ahold of another local installer who does SunPower and get their bid to see how it matches up with this one.
I also have another installer who is affiliated with SunRun coming over in a couple of days.
I got a quote for what is likely the same system here in AZ or $11K prepaid.
24 E20/327 panels
SPR-7501f-240 inverter
That one worked out to $1.43/kWh
The system I eventually went with worked out to $1.28/kWhComment
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From PV Watts - this data is based on long term averages so will never be really accurate for one day. It is also based on nothing being out of the ordinary at your site and the proper exposure and tilt are used.
Guaranteed it is a lot more accurate than salesman's blather.
"Station Identification"
"City:","Fresno"
"State:","California"
"Lat (deg N):", 36.77
"Long (deg W):", 119.72
"Elev (m): ", 100
"PV System Specifications"
"DC Rating:"," 7.8 kW"
"DC to AC Derate Factor:"," 0.770"
"AC Rating:"," 6.0 kW"
"Array Type: Fixed Tilt"
"Array Tilt:"," 36.8"
"Array Azimuth:","180.0"
"Energy Specifications"
"Cost of Electricity:","12.5 cents/kWh"
"Results"
"Month", "Solar Radiation (kWh/m^2/day)", "AC Energy (kWh)", "Energy Value ($)"
1, 3.01, 531, 66.38
2, 4.55, 725, 90.62
3, 5.85, 1013, 126.62
4, 6.78, 1116, 139.50
5, 7.05, 1160, 145.00
6, 7.20, 1113, 139.12
7, 7.38, 1155, 144.38
8, 7.47, 1165, 145.62
9, 6.91, 1069, 133.62
10, 6.11, 1019, 127.38
11, 4.45, 749, 93.62
12, 2.79, 497, 62.12
"Year", 5.80, 11311 kWh AC per year estimated, 1413.88[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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My view on the matter differs a little bit.
The mines more efficient than yours argument really matters when space is limited but it also means fewer penetrations in the roof, more available roof space for future expansion (h2o more PV), and I thought you might have mentioned a potential tree issue in an earlier post. There is some value for these considerations however, for me 13k is too much. Price would trump efficientcy if it were me.
No salesman can follow through on a promise to eliminate your bill. It's your bill only you can eliminate it. The salesmans roll should be to provide you a system that will reduce your bill by the kWhrs you ask him too. That being said PV Watts is a good resource however in California I feel we have a better tool provided by The CSI who manages and institutes the rebate program for the state in lieu of direct utility involvement. ( http://www.csi-epbb.com/default.aspx ) It uses PV Watts but is usually higher with regards to kWhr. That being said that website projects about 11,800 kWhrs a year on the 24 SP 327 although their guaranteed production numbers are usually higher, could even be in the 12,000 kWhr range look on your proposal should be in page two if you have the 5 page version.
As far as the difference in proposals between the 24 panel SP and the 42 panel SC system in "zeroing out your bill" I believe that has more to do with your ending rate SP likely has you on TOU rate E6 while SC has you starting and ending on E8 assuming these guys are honest. I know a big assumption but I'm an optimist. As far as PGE paying you at the end of the year they will at about 3.9 cents a kWhr. At that rate if you used no power this year and sold all the production from the 24 panel system back to PGE they would owe you about $450 at the end of the year. That's a solid 54 year payback on your solar. You will not get rich or gain anymore wealth by using residential solar in CA. You might get a foot long at a popular national sandwich chain. Would someone please invent a reliable lie-o-meter cause there is some truth stretching going on here in this business.
The pricing on SP looks pretty good for the new lease unfortunately this is the new reality. The purchase price Arise is offering looks good considering SP pricing. I think you ought to ask for a purchase on a non-SP branded panel and get a gross purchase price close to 40k (gross pricing gives more people more perspective considering not everyone knows your utility incentive .25/ac watt?)
I wouldn't expect your pricing on SP product to get a whole lot better by that I mean it ain't going under 22 or 23k. If you were considering the quality whatever guys mentioned in a previous quote get a quote over e-mail or the phone their BBB report is terrible. Not just bad but terrible.Comment
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I really like the idea of less panels doing the same job. Yes, less roof penetrations, etc.
Both vendors based their proposals on me changing my current E8 rate to the time of day E6 rate. Also, I am not interested so much in having PG&E cut me a check at the end of the year, I just want to be even steven with them.
What is confusing to me is that Solar City's proposal, utilizing 42 panels, claiming to totally offset my current electrical usage, is a 10.08kw DC sized system.
SunPower proposes a 24 panel setup, claiming to totally offset my current electrical usage, but is only a 7.8kw DC system. What gives here?
I do not have the SunPower proposal in front of me right now, but my Solar City proposal guarantees an annual production of 12,859kWH. I'll have to look at the SunPower proposal to see what they guarantee.
You state that the SP prepay lease proposal looks pretty good. I've been browsing around here and guys in Arizona, San Diego, you name it , are getting a hell of alot better deal than $30,000 for a 7.8kwh system. I assume that SP has bumped up their rates recently, but my current proposal really sucks after reading the prices others here are paying.Comment
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Exactly how many less roof penetrations?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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1) system size "DC Rating:"," 7.8 kW" - same in both cases
2) system size "AC Rating:"," 6.0 kW" from PV Watts - Your salesman was claiming 7.0 kW AC - get it in writing in the guarantee - no way they will do it
3) 11311 kWh AC per year estimated from PV Watts - What is your salesman claiming and what will they guarantee in writing? PV Watts will not be all that far off.
Anything they will not put in writing and in the guarantee is pure bull ****![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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No - you ask them - the roof penetrations are their and your problem not mine. I would be as worried about the extra electrical connections.
I have trouble believing anyone is offering 185 watt panels for your system.
Forget the efficiency stuff for now - someone is blowing smoke at you.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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I do not have the Sunpower quote in front of me, just the Solar City quote. SC states $12,859kwh. They also propose a system size of 10.08kw DC to get me near a 0 balance with electrical provider. Sunpower's system size was 7.8kw to do the same. Thus my question in my other post above.Comment
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Then make a post comparing the 2 directly - without the input this is wasted time[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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