Time of Use Bill Credits with SCE

[silversaver]

If your system is large enough to cover all your electricity demand, you shouldn't even need to be on any TOU plan at all because the price of electricity becomes irrelevant. Whether it's $0.10/kwh or $1.00/kwh, you don't care because you're not drawing any extra energy from the grid as a whole. You're only drawing from your banked credits.

In situation where on-peak credits are stored in separate buckets than off-peak credits, you'd actually want to stay on the base plan instead of the TOU plan so that you'll only have to manage a single bucket of credits that can be used at any time.

Thanks for the suggestion. I think it is a great advice. My estimate annual production is about 9973kWh and my annual usage is about 9000kWh, I guss I should stay in regular tier net metering instead of TOU plan.

[Volusiano]

Sounds to me if you plan your solar large enough to cover all your electricity, then TOU sounds like a good plan to have becasue you don't always turn on AC during peak time, only when need it.

If your system is large enough to cover all your electricity demand, you shouldn't even need to be on any TOU plan at all because the price of electricity becomes irrelevant. Whether it's $0.10/kwh or $1.00/kwh, you don't care because you're not drawing any extra energy from the grid as a whole. You're only drawing from your banked credits.

In situation where on-peak credits are stored in separate buckets than off-peak credits, you'd actually want to stay on the base plan instead of the TOU plan so that you'll only have to manage a single bucket of credits that can be used at any time.

[silversaver]

I ran a credit of 2,371 kWh for my solar electric billing year. I received my check from SCE for $104.58, as I have for the last two years since they were required to refund or carry forward the credits under Schwarzenegger. So producing more than you use will pay you back. But, I agree that you should use all you make as that is the best ROI for a solar home. My billing credit was over $300 on my SCE bill, but you only get credit for what it cost them to produce. Honestly, it seems fair to me. To effectively manage TOU, you must know how negative you are going during Peak and how positive you go during Off-Peak. Your electric bill from SCE has no clue what you generated or used; they only know the net difference. If you don't have a monitor that shows you generation, usage and net, you have no clue what is going on. mysolarstats.com is the only monitor company in the US, to my knowledge, that shows you your generation and usage by hour and by TOU periods, so you can then try to manage your usage to get the best TOU credits. SCE has changed their TOU time segments from when they began, so it is critical that you are able to track time in their TOU segments. TOU Peak, used to be 10 - 18:00, not it is 12-18:00. Two of the highest producing solar hours are 10 and 11 am. See http://mysolarstats.com/c/demo to see how tracking TOU works. Moving as much usage off of Peak is the way to go if you have solar.

I have found that it isn't hard to keep track of the energy you produced on SCE side. On your meter will tells you exactly how much energy you send to SCE (the "net" during solar production. you use part of your solar product during the day) and you can also get the number of energy you used from SCE. If you upload more, then you get credit. I plan my system to cover 100% of my electricity bill, so I'm not really worry about the standard D tier or TOU plan. Sounds to me if you plan your solar large enough to cover all your electricity, then TOU sounds like a good plan to have becasue you don't always turn on AC during peak time, only when need it.

[silversaver]

Thought I'd post and close out my TOU experience for the year - and a small clarification for any potential SCE TOU customers.

I ended the year with a credit of about $190. Going into the winter I had a credit of approx. $450 and whittled away at that during the lower generating winter months. All in all I'm very happy having paid about $12.00 for my electricity for the year (monthly taxes of about $1.00), down from monthly bills that ranged from $250.00 - $350.00 on average.

My only disappointment was that I thought I'd get some benefit, even negligible, for the credit I had generated. However, since I was still a net "user" of electricity (my off peak usage outweighed my on-peak generation) I get exactly $0.00. This wasn't clear to me before, so now I know to kick up the AC a bit more this summer. I have no desire to leave any economic benefit on the table for our friends at SCE.

Down to the end, not even 5 cents per Watt? I have a similar size system as yours in OC as well.

[HBJoe3]

Hey guys,

After reading all the pros and cons to owning and leasing a solar system, I've decided to purchase a system. I think in the long run, it will give me a better ROI than leasing. I live in the Orange County, CA area, and I was curious if anyone nearby can refer me to a good solar company. I guess you'd be able to get a referral incentive if I chose to go your route. Here's what I want know.

Ryan,

I sent you a PM will the companies I am talking to at the moment.

[kingocat]

Solar installers

Hey guys,

After reading all the pros and cons to owning and leasing a solar system, I've decided to purchase a system. I think in the long run, it will give me a better ROI than leasing. I live in the Orange County, CA area, and I was curious if anyone nearby can refer me to a good solar company. I guess you'd be able to get a referral incentive if I chose to go your route. Here's what I want know.

1. cost out of pocket before rebates, etc.
2. warranty/maintenance coverage-if it doesn't perform efficiently, etc
3. Is financing usually available?, I can put about 5k down
4. What is your monthly bill before and after solar? Can you actually get up to $200 back from SCE every month?
5. Is it true that next year, SCE will not be buying back energy credit at .32c ? more like a fraction of that?


Thank you very much for the help.
Ryan

[Ian S]

so if I understand correctly, my total usage was actually 198+431=629 kWh?

That is correct. This is probably such a common misunderstanding that I'm surprised the SCE service reps haven't been briefed on how to handle it.

[akagdis]

You actually did produce 485 kWh but 198 kWh of that went directly into supplying your home needs so it was never seen by SCE. Your Sunny webbox sees all 485 kWh your system produced: the 287 kWh pushed out to the grid (for which you received credit) plus the 198 kWh you used directly. SCE only credits you for what you push back to the grid and only charges you for what you take from the grid.

so if I understand correctly, my total usage was actually 198+431=629 kWh? I guess that is what I really want to know.

[Ian S]

I wondered if anybody in the Southern California area who has SCE as their power company has experienced that they consistently under report the power my solar system generates. I know this because I use Sunny webbox by SMA and have been tracking how much power my system generates monthly.
When I compare total kWh that my system reports vs. what SCE for a given time period, it always says that I produce much more power vs. what SCE reports. For example my last bill, SCE reported that I consumed 431 kWh and my Net generation was -287 kWh from 6/28/13-7/30/13, so I am responsible to pay for 144 kWh, but my sunny webbox reported that I produced 485 kWh. If I trust my box's numbers minus what they claim I used, that would only be 54 kWh I should be on the hook for.
Has anybody else experienced this using a monitoring 'box' and/or software compared to what the energy company reports? I called SCE but of course, they were no help at all! Any thoughts?

You actually did produce 485 kWh but 198 kWh of that went directly into supplying your home needs so it was never seen by SCE. Your Sunny webbox sees all 485 kWh your system produced: the 287 kWh pushed out to the grid (for which you received credit) plus the 198 kWh you used directly. SCE only credits you for what you push back to the grid and only charges you for what you take from the grid.

[akagdis]

Those of you who monitor how much power you generate in SoCal with SCE

I wondered if anybody in the Southern California area who has SCE as their power company has experienced that they consistently under report the power my solar system generates. I know this because I use Sunny webbox by SMA and have been tracking how much power my system generates monthly.
When I compare total kWh that my system reports vs. what SCE for a given time period, it always says that I produce much more power vs. what SCE reports. For example my last bill, SCE reported that I consumed 431 kWh and my Net generation was -287 kWh from 6/28/13-7/30/13, so I am responsible to pay for 144 kWh, but my sunny webbox reported that I produced 485 kWh. If I trust my box's numbers minus what they claim I used, that would only be 54 kWh I should be on the hook for.
Has anybody else experienced this using a monitoring 'box' and/or software compared to what the energy company reports? I called SCE but of course, they were no help at all! Any thoughts?

[Ian S]

Hey guys,

I need your input on any concerns that you may have on my possible Solar contract. Verengo solar will install 20 solar panels free of charge with no up front costs whatsoever. I got referred by my neighbor down the street who used the same company. Basically, they guarantee in writing that they will produce 75% of our average monthly electricity usage, that's roughtly about 500 KWH/month. We use between 700-1200 KWH/month. Our monthly bill to Verego Solar will be $128/ month + a small bill from our electric company, SCE, which is roughly about $30-$50/month. So the total bill would flucuate depending on our usage. That being said, our total bill from Verengo and SCE would be about $150/month for about 20 years. Our neighbor told me that after a few years, they started to see there bills dropped considerably. There would be months where we'd probably owe nothing to SCE if we over-produce.

This deal sounds good, and I want to know what the drawbacks would be. Other companies are asking $5k-10k down for a lease.

Any inputs would help.

Thanks
Ryan

Is there an escalator clause where your payment increases on an annual basis? Have you got firm quotes from others? I'd be surprised if you can't find other companies with zero down leases. SolarCity comes to mind. How much do you figure you'll save annually (lease + new electric bill versus your current electric bill)?

[kingocat]

Sunrun/Verengo Solar

Hey guys,

I need your input on any concerns that you may have on my possible Solar contract. Verengo solar will install 20 solar panels free of charge with no up front costs whatsoever. I got referred by my neighbor down the street who used the same company. Basically, they guarantee in writing that they will produce 75% of our average monthly electricity usage, that's roughtly about 500 KWH/month. We use between 700-1200 KWH/month. Our monthly bill to Verego Solar will be $128/ month + a small bill from our electric company, SCE, which is roughly about $30-$50/month. So the total bill would flucuate depending on our usage. That being said, our total bill from Verengo and SCE would be about $150/month for about 20 years. Our neighbor told me that after a few years, they started to see there bills dropped considerably. There would be months where we'd probably owe nothing to SCE if we over-produce.

This deal sounds good, and I want to know what the drawbacks would be. Other companies are asking $5k-10k down for a lease.

Any inputs would help.

Thanks
Ryan

[Stomp]

Correction - 10am to 6pm is peak.

Well looks like I was wrong and they indeed changed peak from 10-6 to 12-6.

[Stomp]

Harvest Hours for me are approx: 8 to 4.

SCE Peak times are 12 pm to 6 pm and we can keep usage to a minimum during those hours. Pool is scheduled to run at night... during the summer months the only hiccup might be the kids turning the pool on in the afternoon but it is a very efficient variable speed pump.

Correction - 10am to 6pm is peak.

I put together a very basic excel spreadsheet that I have on google docs, but firewalled here at work [edit - a link is in the third post on the first page of this thread]. If you are interested I can try to link to it later (again - very basic). If you can minimize usage during the day, primarily AC during the peak hours over the summer, TOU might make sense. The major annoyance for me with the straight net metering was the large winter bills I had. If not for those I would have likely stayed on net.

2nd Edit: When I was on net metering I was only getting $.05. Are you sure $.13 is accurate? If so that's a huge bump from just a little over a year ago.

[Mike90250]

Harvest Hours for me are approx: 8 to 4.

SCE Peak times are 12 pm to 6 pm ...

So check your harvest hours from April - Oct, [DST] and make sure you are not cutting yourself short. Planning is the only way you can profit, no plan, you loose.