Time of Use Bill Credits with SCE

[bando]

Whoa, what's up with that? That seems rather nice that you don't have to pay for electricity until Nov 2014? Did you size your system for net zero metering?

yeah i don't know, that's how it works here -- not sure if the installer tells them you are attempting zero bill or not. there's an annual true up after you go on net metering. mine is going to be on 11/24/14.

what's funny is that i owe $478 in elec for the month prior to getting solar installed, and then another $200 for the past month (we didn't have a full month of solar yet). so i have $678 from SDGE that it says "Do Not Pay" and it's going to carry forward until my annual true up. kind of nice, i can live without paying $678 interest free for a year!

i thought i might have to pay that $478 first but they already incorporated it in my net metering calculations and i called today and the guy said, No you don't have to pay that. maybe it's a good thing since the system appears to be on pace to overproduce month after month, so i'd rather not let SDGE get super low electricity from me (.04/kwh).

if i have gone over what i produced by 11/24/14, they just bill me for the difference. i'm not sure at what point they decide the bill is too large and you should be paying monthly since you are essentially getting free electricity for a year without paying interest or late fees. We are prepared to pay something anyway in November in case we get an EV this summer , so let's see what SDGE says in November when it's time to cut them a check. but we may also switch all our recessed lights to LED to help offset the kwh used by the EV, and of course sign up for TOU for charging the EV...


JPM - Yes, yesterday was an amazing solar day in San Diego. our highest yet, 49.xx kwh. can't wait to break 50 soon with the longer days!! you are very disciplined to be checking your meter every day! i should just set up a webcam to take a picture of it every hour or something

[bando]

Whoa, what's up with that? That seems rather nice that you don't have to pay for electricity until Nov 2014? Did you size your system for net zero metering?

sorry yes, we did size it for full coverage of our annual usage which has been steady for a few years since having kids. i think the proposal called for 105% coverage of kwh, but 98% of bill offset (due to the ridiculously high tiers 3 and 4 from SDGE).

[silversaver]

I think 1st step in understand your meter. I think SCE has easier meter reading than SDGE?

Ok, here is the example of read out from SCE meter:

(001) total read out (total usage) from day 1. It is just like your car's odometer, it only goes up. If my current reading is 16533, that's the total kWh energy I "used" from SCE. I start my solar system about 11 days ago and the meter (001) reads 16400. Which means I "used" 16533 - 16400 = 133 kWh of energy from SCE for last 11 days.

(082) the number indicates what are the current usage from SCE. At night time, the "arrow" goes to right side. During the day, the "arrow" goes to the left side. That shows my solar is "banking" to SCE. The number is the NET after my consumption during daytime.

(071) the number represent the total amount of energy I "bank" to SCE. If the number under (071) shows 197 , that means I have credit of 197 kWh from SCE during 11 days of solar production.

If I have total cedit of 197 kWh from SCE and I "take" 133kWh from SCE during the nights, so 197 - 133 = 64. That means I still have credit of 64 kWh from SCE, and that is the exact amount I see when I log on to SCE website.

If I want to know the total output of my solar, I can check on 2 places. #1, the E Total on SMA inverter. #2, my Locus monitoring system.

Learn to read your meter, it is just a simple math. We don't really need to get into all the details, unless you have all the free time If you plan your solar to cover almost 100% of usage, sit back and relax. Perhaps grab a couple bottle of beers


bando, your solar output were double of mine 6.63kW DC, I'm only getting little under 25kWh. My panels were facing SW 245, what about yours?

JPM, that's a real good number for size of your SP, South 195 must be nice.

1/5/14 were a nice clear day here in OC

[J.P.M.]

I think 1st step in understand your meter. I think SCE has easier meter reading than SDGE?

Ok, here is the example of read out from SCE meter:

(001) total read out (total usage) from day 1. It is just like your car's odometer, it only goes up. If my current reading is 16533, that's the total kWh energy I "used" from SCE. I start my solar system about 11 days ago and the meter (001) reads 16400. Which means I "used" 16533 - 16400 = 133 kWh of energy from SCE for last 11 days.

(082) the number indicates what are the current usage from SCE. At night time, the "arrow" goes to right side. During the day, the "arrow" goes to the left side. That shows my solar is "banking" to SCE. The number is the NET after my consumption during daytime.

(071) the number represent the total amount of energy I "bank" to SCE. If the number under (071) shows 197 , that means I have credit of 197 kWh from SCE during 11 days of solar production.

If I have total cedit of 197 kWh from SCE and I "take" 133kWh from SCE during the nights, so 197 - 133 = 64. That means I still have credit of 64 kWh from SCE, and that is the exact amount I see when I log on to SCE website.

If I want to know the total output of my solar, I can check on 2 places. #1, the E Total on SMA inverter. #2, my Locus monitoring system.

Learn to read your meter, it is just a simple math. We don't really need to get into all the details, unless you have all the free time If you plan your solar to cover almost 100% of usage, sit back and relax. Perhaps grab a couple bottle of beers


bando, your solar output were double of mine 6.63kW DC, I'm only getting little under 25kWh. My panels were facing SW 245, what about yours?

JPM, that's a real good number for size of your SP, South 195 must be nice.

1/5/14 were a nice clear day here in OC

1.) Not speaking for Bando but : his 10/06 post mentioned mostly south orientation. The CSI # SD-CSI-18133 as Silversaver found that seems to match what Bando has except for price, shows an elevation angle of 24 deg. and multiple azimuths. That's also the CSI # that shows a $49,200 selling price or about $4.18/D.C. Watt.
2.) Given the relative proximity of these 3 systems (J.P.M.,Bando, Silversaver), their approx. outputs on the same very clear day as stated by their owners, and their various manufacturers and equipment, reinforces my opinion that any given system, if reasonably well made and assembled will produce about the same output as any other system, +/- a bit for goofs & giggles, pretty much regardless of price per D.C. Watt.
3.) That is to say, if Bando's 48 Kyocera's were on my roof 01/07/2014 my opinion is they would have produced about 4.1 to 4.4 kWhrs. per kW D.C. vs. my S.P.'s that produced about 4.42 kWhrs. per kW D.C. Silversaver would be about the same per D.C. kW. If my opinion is close to reality, Silversaver got a great deal at <$3.00/D.C. Watt and more to the point, Sunpower more than ever looks overpriced for many applications by about 20-30% for what is probably very similar output.
4.) So, to the comment about 195 south being nice - My sys. performs well, even if space constrained. It better. I've been working toward it since 1975 or so. The $4.50/D.C. Watt I paid the vendor for the S.P. 327's (CSI # SD-CSI-17646) is lower than most S.P. purchased before 08/2013, but - trust me - If I had more room it would not have been S.P. LG, Kyocera, Canadian solar, Solarworld or others would have been selected as equally fit for purpose and much more cost effective - i.e., more bang for the buck. Bottom line, IMO, Bosch panels at <$3.00 /D.C. Watt would perform about as well on my roof. I just don't have the room to achieve my goals with the less expensive stuff. You want nice - you pay nice.

[bando]

1.) Not speaking for Bando but : his 10/06 post mentioned mostly south orientation. The CSI # SD-CSI-18133 as Silversaver found that seems to match what Bando has except for price, shows an elevation angle of 24 deg. and multiple azimuths. That's also the CSI # that shows a $49,200 selling price or about $4.18/D.C. Watt.
2.) Given the relative proximity of these 3 systems (J.P.M.,Bando, Silversaver), their approx. outputs on the same very clear day as stated by their owners, and their various manufacturers and equipment, reinforces my opinion that any given system, if reasonably well made and assembled will produce about the same output as any other system, +/- a bit for goofs & giggles, pretty much regardless of price per D.C. Watt.
3.) That is to say, if Bando's 48 Kyocera's were on my roof 01/07/2014 my opinion is they would have produced about 4.1 to 4.4 kWhrs. per kW D.C. vs. my S.P.'s that produced about 4.42 kWhrs. per kW D.C. Silversaver would be about the same per D.C. kW. If my opinion is close to reality, Silversaver got a great deal at <$3.00/D.C. Watt and more to the point, Sunpower more than ever looks overpriced for many applications by about 20-30% for what is probably very similar output.
4.) So, to the comment about 195 south being nice - My sys. performs well, even if space constrained. It better. I've been working toward it since 1975 or so. The $4.50/D.C. Watt I paid the vendor for the S.P. 327's (CSI # SD-CSI-17646) is lower than most S.P. purchased before 08/2013, but - trust me - If I had more room it would not have been S.P. LG, Kyocera, Canadian solar, Solarworld or others would have been selected as equally fit for purpose and much more cost effective - i.e., more bang for the buck. Bottom line, IMO, Bosch panels at <$3.00 /D.C. Watt would perform about as well on my roof. I just don't have the room to achieve my goals with the less expensive stuff. You want nice - you pay nice.

first of all, i'm female .

second of all, yes that is my CSI # except the price was 41,000 even. sullivan gives back 1,500 after 90 days, for a net $39,500 Before federal and state incentives. we have 11.76 kw DC. that's how i came up with 3.36/w before incentives. after all the incentives, it's going to boil down to $2.146/w


silversaver - i think your output looks the same as mine, maybe even a little better? not sure how OC looked the last few days ...

san diego weather was decent yesterday but some passing clouds lowered the output. only got 41.36 yesterday. still waiting to break 50 and still waiting for my first overall negative usage day ... very exciting. we got close one day with net 1 kwh usage, but it's hard with two little kids and always being in the home in afternoon /evenings.

here are my last four days readings, my zip code is 92130:

1/7 41.36
1/6 49.32
1/5 48.32
1/4 35.1

[bando]

JPM - 4.42 kw per DC is really a great number for 1/7/14. i think you mentioned your zip was 92026?

we are in the carmel valley neighborhood a few miles east of the beach, so we get a little of the coastal fog and marine layer. every mile you go inland, you get less clouds and more sun. we are still considered a coastal area but thankfully avoid most of the beach weather. knowing what i know now about sunny vs. cloudy days, it would cost a LOT more for residents in del mar proper or la jolla proper to achieve the same output.

our two arrays are pretty ideally situated, although the smaller array (12 modules) is more ideal than the larger one (36 modules). but the larger one faces more WSW, so i expect the summer's high sun and long days to really crank those 36 panels up to their max potential. right now the sun sets more in the south and so low that the big array is not reaching near its full potential.

[J.P.M.]

first of all, i'm female .

second of all, yes that is my CSI # except the price was 41,000 even. sullivan gives back 1,500 after 90 days, for a net $39,500 Before federal and state incentives. we have 11.76 kw DC. that's how i came up with 3.36/w before incentives. after all the incentives, it's going to boil down to $2.146/w


silversaver - i think your output looks the same as mine, maybe even a little better? not sure how OC looked the last few days ...

san diego weather was decent yesterday but some passing clouds lowered the output. only got 41.36 yesterday. still waiting to break 50 and still waiting for my first overall negative usage day ... very exciting. we got close one day with net 1 kwh usage, but it's hard with two little kids and always being in the home in afternoon /evenings.

here are my last four days readings, my zip code is 92130:

1/7 41.36
1/6 49.32
1/5 48.32
1/4 35.1

My apologies. I work at trying to be gender neutral. I'll work harder in the future.

Looks like the vendor or someone got their $$ #'s mixed up when reporting to the state, or input got screwed up. CSI shows $49,200.

My output for same dates:01/07 18.92 kWhrs.
01/06 23.13
01/05 22.94
01/04 18.25

It would seem that our #'s are reasonably consistent. That is, your system is about 2.25 times my size and produces about 2.1 times as much electricity. Given the relative paucity of data, somewhat uncertain but probably different orientation/elevation, somewhat different location and topography, and difference in equipment, I'd say this data supports my opinion that S.P. may not be cost effective for many applications.

J.P.M., 92026

[silversaver]

first of all, i'm female .

second of all, yes that is my CSI # except the price was 41,000 even. sullivan gives back 1,500 after 90 days, for a net $39,500 Before federal and state incentives. we have 11.76 kw DC. that's how i came up with 3.36/w before incentives. after all the incentives, it's going to boil down to $2.146/w


silversaver - i think your output looks the same as mine, maybe even a little better? not sure how OC looked the last few days ...

san diego weather was decent yesterday but some passing clouds lowered the output. only got 41.36 yesterday. still waiting to break 50 and still waiting for my first overall negative usage day ... very exciting. we got close one day with net 1 kwh usage, but it's hard with two little kids and always being in the home in afternoon /evenings.

here are my last four days readings, my zip code is 92130:

1/7 41.36
1/6 49.32
1/5 48.32
1/4 35.1

I have compare my system with an older SP system consist of 30 X 225W @6.75kW DC system here is OC facing SW 220. The result is pretty much the same.

https://www.sunpowermonitor.com/residential/kiosk.aspx?id=2B0B7671-2507-4702-AB24-DA5805D4FF86&type=address

I'm just making sure the system is running normally. Seems like the SW facing system has its lowest production during Winter.

Here are my last 4 days reading:

1/7 12.31
1/6 23.43
1/5 24.23
1/4 21.28

PS. The SP system is from our forum member Stomp

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?3805-Looking-for-feedback-on-my-install

[silversaver]

1.) Not speaking for Bando but : his 10/06 post mentioned mostly south orientation. The CSI # SD-CSI-18133 as Silversaver found that seems to match what Bando has except for price, shows an elevation angle of 24 deg. and multiple azimuths. That's also the CSI # that shows a $49,200 selling price or about $4.18/D.C. Watt.
2.) Given the relative proximity of these 3 systems (J.P.M.,Bando, Silversaver), their approx. outputs on the same very clear day as stated by their owners, and their various manufacturers and equipment, reinforces my opinion that any given system, if reasonably well made and assembled will produce about the same output as any other system, +/- a bit for goofs & giggles, pretty much regardless of price per D.C. Watt.
3.) That is to say, if Bando's 48 Kyocera's were on my roof 01/07/2014 my opinion is they would have produced about 4.1 to 4.4 kWhrs. per kW D.C. vs. my S.P.'s that produced about 4.42 kWhrs. per kW D.C. Silversaver would be about the same per D.C. kW. If my opinion is close to reality, Silversaver got a great deal at <$3.00/D.C. Watt and more to the point, Sunpower more than ever looks overpriced for many applications by about 20-30% for what is probably very similar output.
4.) So, to the comment about 195 south being nice - My sys. performs well, even if space constrained. It better. I've been working toward it since 1975 or so. The $4.50/D.C. Watt I paid the vendor for the S.P. 327's (CSI # SD-CSI-17646) is lower than most S.P. purchased before 08/2013, but - trust me - If I had more room it would not have been S.P. LG, Kyocera, Canadian solar, Solarworld or others would have been selected as equally fit for purpose and much more cost effective - i.e., more bang for the buck. Bottom line, IMO, Bosch panels at <$3.00 /D.C. Watt would perform about as well on my roof. I just don't have the room to achieve my goals with the less expensive stuff. You want nice - you pay nice.

Thanks J.P.M. Like always, you are on top of your game. I think these panels produce pretty much the same under clear day.

[Ian S]

Sunpower claims their panel output declines more slowly over time than other brands. So it would be interesting to see how the Sunpower system production compares with non-Sunpower after a few years.

[J.P.M.]

Sunpower claims their panel output declines more slowly over time than other brands. So it would be interesting to see how the Sunpower system production compares with non-Sunpower after a few years.

That may be but unless and until I find out Sunpower's crystal ball is any better than mine, I'd rather go by what the warranty says which in effect says some of the same things. Something about +5/-3% when new and .5%/yr. degradation. Other reputable mfgrs. are often something like +5/-0%, or +/- 3% , etc. and -.5 to -.7%/yr. or something like that. The rest is wish, hearsay and innuendo. I maintain S.P. is really good stuff - just overpriced for what you get - and what you get may be more than you need to begin with. So far my stuff, like yours, if I remember, seems to be performing at the high end of the initial tolerance. I'm happy about that but not surprised. FWIW, LG systems and Kyocera systems in my neighborhood seem to be enjoying similar performance, i.e. several % better than I might have estimated using +/- 0% for startup performance. This says nothing, BTW, about the oversizing problem that seems common among vendors around here and perhaps elsewhere.

[alienwulf]

That may be but unless and until I find out Sunpower's crystal ball is any better than mine, I'd rather go by what the warranty says which in effect says some of the same things. Something about +5/-3% when new and .5%/yr. degradation. Other reputable mfgrs. are often something like +5/-0%, or +/- 3% , etc. and -.5 to -.7%/yr. or something like that. The rest is wish, hearsay and innuendo. I maintain S.P. is really good stuff - just overpriced for what you get - and what you get may be more than you need to begin with. So far my stuff, like yours, if I remember, seems to be performing at the high end of the initial tolerance. I'm happy about that but not surprised. FWIW, LG systems and Kyocera systems in my neighborhood seem to be enjoying similar performance, i.e. several % better than I might have estimated using +/- 0% for startup performance. This says nothing, BTW, about the oversizing problem that seems common among vendors around here and perhaps elsewhere.

I hope Sunpower isn't to over priced..New here , just signed last week on a purchase in Menifee 92584. Going thru the HOA stuff have an onsite appointment for tomorrow. I bought 24 - X20 250 watt panels a Edge SE-6000-A. cost after Fed 30% and discounts from the company left a payoff of 21282.00 Hopefully I am learning a lot got a lot too learn. Must say there is lots of info here and have been reading as much as I can. I had many wrong ideas on how solar really works with on grid and off. Will see how everything truns out over the coming weeks and months.

[J.P.M.]

I hope Sunpower isn't to over priced..New here , just signed last week on a purchase in Menifee 92584. Going thru the HOA stuff have an onsite appointment for tomorrow. I bought 24 - X20 250 watt panels a Edge SE-6000-A. cost after Fed 30% and discounts from the company left a payoff of 21282.00 Hopefully I am learning a lot got a lot too learn. Must say there is lots of info here and have been reading as much as I can. I had many wrong ideas on how solar really works with on grid and off. Will see how everything truns out over the coming weeks and months.

Sounds a bit high $$ wise to me, but at the end of the day if you're happy, that's all that matters. It is after all a free country.

[J.P.M.]

I have compare my system with an older SP system consist of 30 X 225W @6.75kW DC system here is OC facing SW 220. The result is pretty much the same.

https://www.sunpowermonitor.com/residential/kiosk.aspx?id=2B0B7671-2507-4702-AB24-DA5805D4FF86&type=address

I'm just making sure the system is running normally. Seems like the SW facing system has its lowest production during Winter.

Here are my last 4 days reading:

1/7 12.31
1/6 23.43
1/5 24.23
1/4 21.28

PS. The SP system is from our forum member Stomp

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...-on-my-install

The #'s seem consistent, at least for 01/05 and 01/06.
Also, I'd suggest, without being too much of a rectum, that most every system in the northern hemisphere has its lowest production in winter.

[silversaver]

anyone care to show how his or her arrays looks like? and inverter placement?