Wisdom from a real technician in florida, plead read

[Brightside]

Hello my name is Seth and I am the owner of Brightside Solar, based out of Merritt island florida. I wanted to introduce myself to the forum and let anyone in the state know that we’re here to help you take your power back! And to let you know the real scoop on what’s going on around here.




I myself have been an installer since 2014. I graduated eastern florida state in the alternative and renewable energy program with a 4.0 and a member of phi theta kappa. My partner has been an installer since 2012. That’s 25 years of combined experience in this field for those who don’t want to do the math.




Seperately me and my partner have both worked for and helped build several other companies on our backs. I won’t say any names but me and my partner watched them all fail for the same reasons ie: they get too big for their britches, are driven by greed, and personally, they all go about it the wrong way. I’m sure if you’re paying any attention at all you’ve all noticed these large companies dropping like flies.




I started my company In 2018 and strictly subbed for these larger companies, which were really just business men and marketing crews selling solar. It was fine for awhile, then They started bringing in guys, who weren’t solar technicians, trained them for two weeks, gave them a crew, and sent them on their way to install power plants on customers roofs. Well, I’m sure you can guess what happened. These companies became hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, behind on service calls and unhappy customers. Eventually to file bankruptcy and leave those customers to the wind.




it’s awful what these companies have done to the industry. And they all started out with, from what I gathered, the right idea. (At least from what I was told) Only to get greedy and dumb. They all may be millionaires now, but they did it in a sleazy way, and used all of us real techs to get ahead. Then fired us because we were being paid more than what the new crews they were bringing on were paid.

but I’m sorry/not sorry, an impeccable inspection pass rate, outstanding workmanship to the highest code regardless of the AHJ, favorable and personable customer service skills, and years of OTJ knowledge and skill demands a certain level of pay. One of which they failed to heed, and now have failed due to it.




I hear the same sad stories every single day from my customers. Ie: The company came, they installed the system,got the money, and disappeared… most of them bankrupt and gone, some of them still operating but have wiped their hands clean of it, giving the homeowners the run around or charging them outstanding service call rates. It’s shameful.

some of these companies aren’t even In florida. What they’ll do is set up shop in a strip mall, which is really only a sales hub, canvass the area telling homeowners they’re from that area, sell, install, then have zero means to service the account thereafter. Leaving the homeowner totally blank.

do you know how many systems have been installed without even having a permit? And these homeowners have not had an interconnection agreement for YEARS! The system has either A) never been operational or B) costing them more money because it’s never been sent to the grid whatsoever and being considered a load only raising their energy cost. And the company wipes their hands free of them once they got the money and ran. It makes me so mad.




Personally, I am the only technician that I have ever met in this industry that went to school and graduated for it. I was always very interested in it and once I got the news I was to be a father I dove into it and never looked back. I went into it wanting to eventually run a solar company. I put in 6 long years then eventually just knew I was better than the b.s hourly pay so in 2018 I put myself and my credentials out there. I was approached by one of these larger companies wanting me to install for them because as I said, they were really just marketing companies selling the crap out of Solar with nobody like me to get it done. So that’s when Brightside Solar was born in 2018.




I built crews, several crews made up of real technicians I personally trained to do good work, working exclusively for these larger companies. That went on for another 4 years and that’s how I met my now partner. Then in 2022 after these companies got too big for their britches, greedy, and stupid by bringing in unqualified help. I went out on my own to make a real name for myself under Brightside.

Me and my partner teamed up in 2022 and been going ever since. We kept the Brightside name and god willing will keep that name,and in good standing.




We’re not here to get rich. We’re here wiping the a**es of every other solar company not doing it right. Yes we do new installs of all systems solar, removals and reinstalls for new roofs, and any service necessary for all things solar. We stay small because

A) I’m going to be honest we don’t have a ton of work, we don’t have the wallet these other guys got, but by god we do it right.

B) we stay small because that means we can keep our costs down and relay them to the homeowner to make it that much easier to break free from the monopoly of these energy companies who are taking advantage of our American society. (Seriously we’re like half the cost of everyone else)

And C) we’re not going to bring in anyone who we can’t trust to uphold our good name.

So when you go with Brightside Solar you get me and my partner from start to finish and for the life of the system. And at this moment with 25 years of combined experience in our hands you can rest assured you’re in good hands. And we will be there for you if ever you need us.




So please, if you’re in florida, and you want to go solar, or you need help with your solar, or even if you have questions about it. Call Brightside Solar. Because we’re the real deal, and we’re here to help YOU take your power back!




And even if we can’t be there physically to help you, we can refer you to someone we trust can. Just please do not entertain these children knocking on your doors, they’re salesmen and you can’t trust them because they don’t know what the h*** they’re talking about other than trying to open your wallet.




Everything I’ve said is a true testimony to what I’ve experienced in this field. They all claim to want to help change the world, ease of access into going solar, be your green champion… it’s all lies man. These larger companies don’t give a rats a**. They get your money and they’re gone with the wind. NOT ALL OF THEM, but dang near most of em. And I know who’s who.




So please. give us a call. We’ll answer.




321-328-5570

Brightsidesolarfl@gmail.com

Brightsidesolarfl.com




In all honesty I Initially joined this forum because I had some questions regarding difficulty concerning lake county building division but by the time they approved me for this forum I figured it out. Then I figured it a good idea to blow the whistle and let yall know what’s what and who we are. We’re not salesman, we’re not trying to get rich, we’re real solar technicians doing solar the way it should be done, and doing right by every customer for the life of it. So do yourself a favor. If you’re in florida. Get ahold of us, and tell your friends.




Thanks for reading.

[Mike 134]

Just an FYI For those of us who served a 4-5 year union apprenticeship learning electrical construction, solar installation is easy. It's not rocket science. Use the proper roof mounts/racking system correctly installed and you're 80% done. Bolt on the modules, plug your modules together, pipe and wire back to the inverter, and breaker panel and you're done. The more difficult part is navigating all the changing rules of the various utilities, and the needed paperwork/drawings to get approval and your interconnection agreement.

[Brightside]

Just an FYI For those of us who served a 4-5 year union apprenticeship learning electrical construction, solar installation is easy. It's not rocket science. Use the proper roof mounts/racking system correctly installed and you're 80% done. Bolt on the modules, plug your modules together, pipe and wire back to the inverter, and breaker panel and you're done. The more difficult part is navigating all the changing rules of the various utilities, and the needed paperwork/drawings to get approval and your interconnection agreement.

no, it’s not rocket science. But drilling for rafters is important, I say it’s like poking holes in the roof of a Ferrari or something, even though most of these houses are worth more than that. The important part is having integrity in your craftsmanship and doing a good job to make sure there’s no leaks. A good technician knows if it’s good rafter purchase or not immediately and takes the proper steps to secure it ensuring no leaks. Nowadays most attachments are deck mounted, and those are easy to mess up too. If you spin that screw out then there’s no purchase and there will be a leak. So if every mount needs 4 screws and there’s 40,80,120 mounts, do the math. And every single one counts.
I don’t typically follow individual ahj for code compliance, that gets too messy. I operate on the latest code no matter where I am. But if I run into setback issues concerning the necessary solar footprint then I’ll check to see if the county doesn’t require them to free up “roof estate”
then there’s the electrical, and like you said, most of that is fairly straightforward. Whether it be a standard conventional DC string system, solaredge optimized, or ac coupled like enphase, knowing your equipment and your parameters is a very big deal. Ie: knowing what you can string together before your out of your MPPT or equipment parameters. And if it’s an IQ system you’ve got to know your panel data and do the math and have the equipment knowledge to know how many micros per string. And simply knowing how to follow engineering isn’t good enough. I catch errors all the time. Most of them conduit or wire size, or improperly designating line or load tap which is absolutely a big deal because that's exactly what will burn the home to the ground.
Having a solar professional is essential from start to finish. Because if it’s anything I’ve learned from these companies being too big for their britches is that: things fall through the cracks. Do you know how many times I’ve arrived for install and had to explain to the customer that their system will not operate when the sun goes down without batteries (that they didn’t purchase) but the salesman told them the system he sold them would. It’s shameful. And why didn’t anyone catch those errors on the engineering before I received them? Or sometimes I’d show up to install a DHW system and they’ve got a gas heater …. It’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.

To downplay the knowledge or experience necessary for this industry is a fools errand. And that is where these other companies have failed and ended up in ridiculous amounts of debt in service calls, drywall repairs from leaks, improperly installed CT’s, countless unhappy customers who now have a salty taste for solar who are most definitely telling their friends, and more… it’s ruining the industry reputation, the industry that I love and have chosen as my career. this is all some of the many facets of why they are now bankrupt and long gone.

It goes beyond PV as well. I know how to operate every single model of pool automation. How to calculate head pressures to optimize VS pumps for height,size, and amount of collectors, Why you should never install a DHW collector in landscape orientation without shoring up the frame, and if something is broken, not operating properly, acting funky, I know exactly where to look and the best methods to troubleshoot it, as well as all the code for all of it. This knowledge was earned in blood sweat tears and time.

no, solar is not rocket science, but it damn sure isn’t something your going to learn/understand/and be good at without putting real time into. Thinking it’s easy and treating it as such is where the first mistake was made. It’s easy for me, not some person trained up for a few weeks and sent on their way.

[MGE]

Retired IBEW Union member here and did my install back in 2013 with zero problems.
Most of the guys I have seen doing the installs on neighbors rooftops are just that installers.
Usually I “smart guy” and the others are doing what their told.
Nothing wrong with that but most of those “installers” wouldn’t know specific answers on code requirements or device pro/cons.

Best of luck to your Business ventures and hope you do well.
Stay small, take care of your past customers and they will lead you to new ones.

A good sign that an electrician is good is not only knowing what to do but also knowing what not to do and why.

[Brightside]

Retired IBEW Union member here and did my install back in 2013 with zero problems.
Most of the guys I have seen doing the installs on neighbors rooftops are just that installers.
Usually I “smart guy” and the others are doing what their told.
Nothing wrong with that but most of those “installers” wouldn’t know specific answers on code requirements or device pro/cons.

Best of luck to your Business ventures and hope you do well.
Stay small, take care of your past customers and they will lead you to new ones.

A good sign that an electrician is good is not only knowing what to do but also knowing what not to do and why.

yes, most of them don’t really know and are doing what they’re told by someone who hopefully does know. Throughout the past decade I’ve been able to work with dozens of different installers and I think I’m pretty clever but at times I’ve noticed something clever they do that makes total sense to me and I’ll determine that it’s better than the way I’m doing it and I adopt it into my own toolbag. When I moved into my home last year my next door neighbor had Pv and I asked them about it. They told me the install crew didn’t even speak English. I don’t have anything against legal immigrants but My first thought was A) if they didn’t speak English then they probably haven’t been in America very long. B) the chances of a strong complete Solar crew coming from a Spanish speaking country is pretty slim and C) I wouldn’t want to not be able to speak with the individuals installing a power plant on my roof.

What’s happened in this industry is crews started subbing for these larger companies, who suck, and don’t do the right thing or a good job. they get in, get out,get paid. “Not my house right?” Then by the time the poor workmanship shows itself, they’re long gone.
so this factor, coupled with the companies realizing cheap hourly is cheaper than subs, switched to hourly guys in hopes to maybe have more quality control and save money on labor costs.
well, the hourly rates are crap, and if there’s ever been a quote more true it’s: “you get what you pay for”

It seems like the whole industry has gone hourly and subbing has gone the way of the dodo, but the hourly rates are a joke for my skill,,knowledge,and experience so I refuse to go back to hourly no matter how stressful and scary it is running a small company not knowing when the next check is coming. Especially now that I’m a homeowner. But I’ll keep plugging away kicking butt doing things properly making customers for life who absolutely tell their friends because that’s where most of my business comes from. And thank the lord something always comes through. Just got to keep going until it gains enough traction.

[J.P.M.]

no, it’s not rocket science. But drilling for rafters is important, I say it’s like poking holes in the roof of a Ferrari or something, even though most of these houses are worth more than that. The important part is having integrity in your craftsmanship and doing a good job to make sure there’s no leaks. A good technician knows if it’s good rafter purchase or not immediately and takes the proper steps to secure it ensuring no leaks. Nowadays most attachments are deck mounted, and those are easy to mess up too. If you spin that screw out then there’s no purchase and there will be a leak. So if every mount needs 4 screws and there’s 40,80,120 mounts, do the math. And every single one counts.
I don’t typically follow individual ahj for code compliance, that gets too messy. I operate on the latest code no matter where I am. But if I run into setback issues concerning the necessary solar footprint then I’ll check to see if the county doesn’t require them to free up “roof estate”
then there’s the electrical, and like you said, most of that is fairly straightforward. Whether it be a standard conventional DC string system, solaredge optimized, or ac coupled like enphase, knowing your equipment and your parameters is a very big deal. Ie: knowing what you can string together before your out of your MPPT or equipment parameters. And if it’s an IQ system you’ve got to know your panel data and do the math and have the equipment knowledge to know how many micros per string. And simply knowing how to follow engineering isn’t good enough. I catch errors all the time. Most of them conduit or wire size, or improperly designating line or load tap which is absolutely a big deal because that's exactly what will burn the home to the ground.
Having a solar professional is essential from start to finish. Because if it’s anything I’ve learned from these companies being too big for their britches is that: things fall through the cracks. Do you know how many times I’ve arrived for install and had to explain to the customer that their system will not operate when the sun goes down without batteries (that they didn’t purchase) but the salesman told them the system he sold them would. It’s shameful. And why didn’t anyone catch those errors on the engineering before I received them? Or sometimes I’d show up to install a DHW system and they’ve got a gas heater …. It’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.

To downplay the knowledge or experience necessary for this industry is a fools errand. And that is where these other companies have failed and ended up in ridiculous amounts of debt in service calls, drywall repairs from leaks, improperly installed CT’s, countless unhappy customers who now have a salty taste for solar who are most definitely telling their friends, and more… it’s ruining the industry reputation, the industry that I love and have chosen as my career. this is all some of the many facets of why they are now bankrupt and long gone.

It goes beyond PV as well. I know how to operate every single model of pool automation. How to calculate head pressures to optimize VS pumps for height,size, and amount of collectors, Why you should never install a DHW collector in landscape orientation without shoring up the frame, and if something is broken, not operating properly, acting funky, I know exactly where to look and the best methods to troubleshoot it, as well as all the code for all of it. This knowledge was earned in blood sweat tears and time.

no, solar is not rocket science, but it damn sure isn’t something your going to learn/understand/and be good at without putting real time into. Thinking it’s easy and treating it as such is where the first mistake was made. It’s easy for me, not some person trained up for a few weeks and sent on their way.

Could you explain why a DHW collector should not be mounted in landscape orientation without shoring up the frame ?
I must have skipped class that day. Also not sure what you mean by "shoring up the frame".

[Brightside]

Could you explain why a DHW collector should not be mounted in landscape orientation without shoring up the frame ?
I must have skipped class that day. Also not sure what you mean by "shoring up the frame".

what will happen is the frame will eventually bow out from gravity, it will separate from the seal, and there will basically be a wide gap at the bottom letting water in only exacerbating the issue and it will fail prematurely. It also puts undue stress on the absorber pipes. If the panel must be installed landscape, or in most cases already is and beginning to fail, My solution is to take all thread rods, usually two to three, around 1/4 to 3/8 diameter. drill holes on both sides, feed the rods through and snug it in with nuts and washers. I’ll usually put a little bit of poly sealant on the interior of the washer to help moisture proof.
if you’ve got one in landscape orientation that’s been there for awhile, go ahead and take a look at that frame on the bottom and tell me it’s the same as the top. It won’t be. It’ll be showing signs of bowing, so shore it up before it gets worse. Obviously pitch of the roof is a factor, as well as if it’s an 8’ or 10’ collector. The 10’ is clearly more susceptible to bowing
The really old collectors were built like brick s*houses … darn near indestructible. The ones built within the last ten years at least… not so much.

they are meant to be installed portrait just like pool Collectors. You would never install pool collectors landscape, would you?

[J.P.M.]

what will happen is the frame will eventually bow out from gravity, it will separate from the seal, and there will basically be a wide gap at the bottom letting water in only exacerbating the issue and it will fail prematurely. It also puts undue stress on the absorber pipes. If the panel must be installed landscape, or in most cases already is and beginning to fail, My solution is to take all thread rods, usually two to three, around 1/4 to 3/8 diameter. drill holes on both sides, feed the rods through and snug it in with nuts and washers. I’ll usually put a little bit of poly sealant on the interior of the washer to help moisture proof.
if you’ve got one in landscape orientation that’s been there for awhile, go ahead and take a look at that frame on the bottom and tell me it’s the same as the top. It won’t be. It’ll be showing signs of bowing, so shore it up before it gets worse. Obviously pitch of the roof is a factor, as well as if it’s an 8’ or 10’ collector. The 10’ is clearly more susceptible to bowing
The really old collectors were built like brick s*houses … darn near indestructible. The ones built within the last ten years at least… not so much.

they are meant to be installed portrait just like pool Collectors. You would never install pool collectors landscape, would you?

For many reasons too involved to describe briefly, with respect to solar thermal technologies, I believe you are out of your area of competence. and what you suggest for those applications can cause problems. I would not recommend any of what you describe for solar thermal applications.
As to your specific question of whether or not I'd install solar thermal flat plate pool collectors in landscape orientation, while not dodging your question, that would depend on the application and so the choice of the collectors, but I've never seen, heard or had any qualms or problems with any orientation provided the designer knew what to do with the entire design/application.
For most any solar thermal flat plate domestic potable water heating systems, the orientation of the panels (with respect to portrait or landscape) is not critical to the proper, long term operation of the system.
FWIW, I've been around alternate energy since the mid '70's and over a half century+ of reeducation and exposure to solar of all types, including lots of solar thermal from residential to utility scale, as well as PV, I've seen, or engineered and designed lots of solar thermal and also PV applications.
Some flat plate active thermal applications have portrait, some have landscape orientation. A reasonably well designed solar thermal flat plate design can have either portrait, landscape or for that matter any orientation (including varying and maybe funky looking orientations of collectors within a system) provided the system is properly designed.
Been there, seen it and also done some of it.
Anyway, a lot of what you describe as necessary or desirable for portrait orientation of solar thermal flat plate collector applications is unnecessary and not only that will probably cause problems of their own as well as probably voiding any manufacturer's warranty.

[Brightside]

For many reasons too involved to describe briefly, with respect to solar thermal technologies, I believe you are out of your area of competence. and what you suggest for those applications can cause problems. I would not recommend any of what you describe for solar thermal applications.
As to your specific question of whether or not I'd install solar thermal flat plate pool collectors in landscape orientation, while not dodging your question, that would depend on the application and so the choice of the collectors, but I've never seen, heard or had any qualms or problems with any orientation provided the designer knew what to do with the entire design/application.
For most any solar thermal flat plate domestic potable water heating systems, the orientation of the panels (with respect to portrait or landscape) is not critical to the proper, long term operation of the system.
FWIW, I've been around alternate energy since the mid '70's and over a half century+ of reeducation and exposure to solar of all types, including lots of solar thermal from residential to utility scale, as well as PV, I've seen, or engineered and designed lots of solar thermal and also PV applications.
Some flat plate active thermal applications have portrait, some have landscape orientation. A reasonably well designed solar thermal flat plate design can have either portrait, landscape or for that matter any orientation (including varying and maybe funky looking orientations of collectors within a system) provided the system is properly designed.
Been there, seen it and also done some of it.
Anyway, a lot of what you describe as necessary or desirable for portrait orientation of solar thermal flat plate collector applications is unnecessary and not only that will probably cause problems of their own as well as probably voiding any manufacturer's warranty.

im not here to debate it, the next time I run into the issue I’m talking about I’ll remember to snap a picture and post it here. You think I just came up with the idea for no reason? It’s from a decade of running into the same problem.

[J.P.M.]

im not here to debate it, the next time I run into the issue I’m talking about I’ll remember to snap a picture and post it here. You think I just came up with the idea for no reason? It’s from a decade of running into the same problem.

And I'm not about to debate the veracity of what I know to be correct by training, education, engineering experience, failure analysis and what I believe to be a fair amount of practical experimentation and experience, a lot of it done in the field and on a lot of roofs.

A photo of a failed design proves nothing about causes of the failure, but I'm pretty sure failures aren't caused by flat plate thermal collectors' orientation - portrait vs. landscape orientation - in and of itself.

I'm not inside your head so I don't know where you got the idea that such orientations alone can cause collector panel or system failures, but this is the first time I've heard of such a thing, and also never seen such a condition to be a cause, either primary or contributory to a thermal flat plate collector failure.

If you haven't already or if you haven't but are interested, you might consult what's generally the most widely recognized "bible" of solar energy thermal processes : "Solar Engineering of Thermal Processes" by John Duffie and William Beckman. It's available as a free online PDF if you look around the net some.
If you do study it a bit (as well as the bibliography of each chapter as references), you may come to see why you may want to revisit and revise your opinions about flat plate solar thermal collector orientation requirements.

For this discussion I'd respectfully suggest you might best concentrate of chaps. 3 through 6 of Duffie and Beckman with chap. 6 being the meat of the mechanical and thermal engineering of a solar thermal flat plate collector and how those two subdisciplines come together in good flat plate solar thermal design.

In any case, I'd also respectfully suggest you back up your statements with some real and sound engineering judgment that can be backed up in a true engineering sense, and not anecdotal snippets and what's basically uncorroborated nonsense.

If you can do that, I welcome a spirited exchange of information as long as it's substantive and based on real engineering rather than the type of stuff you've put forth around here so far which, to me at least, so far seems to have been little more than a bitch session about how you think most everyone in the whole solar energy industry except you is corrupt.

Lucman: If you're reading any of this: Any thoughts/comments ?
Just wondering what an informed opinion might be.
Thanx,
J.P.M.

[Brightside]

And I'm not about to debate the veracity of what I know to be correct by training, education, engineering experience, failure analysis and what I believe to be a fair amount of practical experimentation and experience, a lot of it done in the field and on a lot of roofs.

A photo of a failed design proves nothing about causes of the failure, but I'm pretty sure failures aren't caused by flat plate thermal collectors' orientation - portrait vs. landscape orientation - in and of itself.

I'm not inside your head so I don't know where you got the idea that such orientations alone can cause collector panel or system failures, but this is the first time I've heard of such a thing, and also never seen such a condition to be a cause, either primary or contributory to a thermal flat plate collector failure.

If you haven't already or if you haven't but are interested, you might consult what's generally the most widely recognized "bible" of solar energy thermal processes : "Solar Engineering of Thermal Processes" by John Duffie and William Beckman. It's available as a free online PDF if you look around the net some.
If you do study it a bit (as well as the bibliography of each chapter as references), you may come to see why you may want to revisit and revise your opinions about flat plate solar thermal collector orientation requirements.

For this discussion I'd respectfully suggest you might best concentrate of chaps. 3 through 6 of Duffie and Beckman with chap. 6 being the meat of the mechanical and thermal engineering of a solar thermal flat plate collector and how those two subdisciplines come together in good flat plate solar thermal design.

In any case, I'd also respectfully suggest you back up your statements with some real and sound engineering judgment that can be backed up in a true engineering sense, and not anecdotal snippets and what's basically uncorroborated nonsense.

If you can do that, I welcome a spirited exchange of information as long as it's substantive and based on real engineering rather than the type of stuff you've put forth around here so far which, to me at least, so far seems to have been little more than a bitch session about how you think most everyone in the whole solar energy industry except you is corrupt.

Lucman: If you're reading any of this: Any thoughts/comments ?
Just wondering what an informed opinion might be.
Thanx,
J.P.M.

anecdotal? I think not. The books, the engineering, cool. I graduated in alternative and renewable energy in 2014, with a 4.0, and have been in the field longer than that. I know the books. I own the books, I know they state it can be installed landscape,or all weird and diagonal in a roof valley, and I’ve seen it all, but I’m telling you, and I promise you, from real world experience on these roofs for over a decade of having to deal with this issue that the collectors, at least the ones built in the last decade, are no longer being built well enough. Over time if installed landscape the frame will bow out and will need to be reinforced. You’re making me feel like I’m crazy as if it’s not real. Or that I’m just making it up. It’s comical and strange.

maybe contact your local solar professional and ask if thats something they’ve seen and had to do. And be sure to ask how long they’ve been doing it. Or perhaps contact alternate energy technologies themselves and ask them if it’s been an issue. Aetsolar.com

[J.P.M.]

anecdotal? I think not. The books, the engineering, cool. I graduated in alternative and renewable energy in 2014, with a 4.0, and have been in the field longer than that. I know the books. I own the books, I know they state it can be installed landscape,or all weird and diagonal in a roof valley, and I’ve seen it all, but I’m telling you, and I promise you, from real world experience on these roofs for over a decade of having to deal with this issue that the collectors, at least the ones built in the last decade, are no longer being built well enough. Over time if installed landscape the frame will bow out and will need to be reinforced. You’re making me feel like I’m crazy as if it’s not real. Or that I’m just making it up. It’s comical and strange.

maybe contact your local solar professional and ask if thats something they’ve seen and had to do. And be sure to ask how long they’ve been doing it. Or perhaps contact alternate energy technologies themselves and ask them if it’s been an issue. Aetsolar.com

More hearsay and opinion with no backup.
Since you cannot or will not substantiate what you claim using what's been acceptable ways and methods since modern engineering began, I won't waste any more of my or this forum's time on this subject with you.

I will, however, point out any misrepresentations of engineering matters that you may produce here in the future.
Or, simply put, I'll call B.S. on your stuff when I see it.

I'd only suggest readers of your stuff take it with a large cautionary note.

You have the last word on this subject.

J.P.M.

[Brightside]

This isn’t about fluid dynamics, it’s understood that a hot water collector can be installed landscape. That isn’t the issue at hand.
This is about simple common sense. The integrity of the longer side of a collector frame installed landscape is put under more downward stress than if it were in portrait due to simple laws of gravity, lateral forces, as well as other factors.
What’s holding that glazing to the frame? spoiler alert. It’s the perimeter seal that’s holding that glazing to the frame. other than the small ledges of the frame that the glazing rest upon. Which, if the collector was flat then great, it’d be super solid. If that was the case and the collector was installed flat then the weight of the glazing sitting on those small ledges may never cause the frame to bow even if the seal gave out. But installed at that angle of the roof, the structural integrity of that small ledge it rests upon is relied upon for its integrity by the outside force put upon it by the sides of the collector at the corners. As well as the seal that connects the glazing to the frame.
It is a frail aluminum framed box held together with small screws. The bottom is a thin sheet of aluminum, and the top is the glazing. So if the frame starts to bow now the only thing holding it together is the rubber seal between frame and glazing. Or perhaps I’m looking at it wrong, perhaps it is the seal that lets go from the frame first, after being annihilated by the florida sun for years (which is never something to underestimate, ever) and then that coupled with the undue stress of it being landscape … it starts to bow and the frame detaches from the seal itself or from the glazing, The glazing typically doesn’t go with it because the glazing is still held together by the seals on the top and sides. So it ends up just being the frame that has bowed and detached. But Regardless of which detached from the seal first, the frame is no longer attached to the glazing, it has separated, it is no longer a sealed box.

As I said, this is something that happens to the collectors over time if landed landscape. Idk what else to say to try and explain it. If you’re having trouble with that information then by all means go beyond me to get your truth because I know mine, because I’ve seen it and put my hands on it. The next time I come across it, like I have dozens of times before, I’ll remember to post it here. And then you can tell me what you think happened. Heck, even someone with no solar knowledge at all would look at it and be like: “yup”
And I’ve only seen it in panels landed landscape. Which makes total sense to me. And as a man of your credentials I find it interesting that you think it impossible for a frame to separate from the seal of a collectors glazing after years of expansion and contraction, getting blasted by the brutal florida sun, And start to droop down.
I literally have a panel on the side of my shop that had already been reinforced previously by someone else. It was removed and I busted the glazing and pulled the collector. I can take a picture of that but with the glazing gone idk if it would truly get the point across.

I simply don’t know what else to say. The next time I see it I’ll post a picture.